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Very weird first hand in SCOOP 320

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  1. Crazy Cypriot Crazy Cypriot is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2009 (4/5/2009 4:37pm)

    I was not involved... but what a weird hands...

    pokerstars Game #26761118253: Tournament #200904082, $300+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (25/50) - 2009/04/05 22:31:31 CET [2009/04/05 16:31:31 ET]
    Table '200904082 143' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: tpir90036 (10000 in chips)
    Seat 4: hdezpoker (10050 in chips)
    Seat 5: beeschnuts (9988 in chips)
    Seat 6: redhookesb (9950 in chips)
    Seat 7: POTTERPOKER (10000 in chips)
    Seat 8: polpolpol (10000 in chips)
    Seat 9: baletta (10012 in chips)
    redhookesb: posts small blind 25
    POTTERPOKER: posts big blind 50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to polpolpol [9h Kd]
    polpolpol: folds
    baletta: raises 100 to 150
    tpir90036: folds
    hdezpoker: folds
    beeschnuts: folds
    redhookesb: folds
    POTTERPOKER: calls 100
    *** FLOP *** [Ts Qd 9d]
    POTTERPOKER: checks
    baletta: bets 250
    POTTERPOKER: raises 550 to 800
    baletta: calls 550
    *** TURN *** [Ts Qd 9d] [Td]
    POTTERPOKER: checks
    baletta: checks
    *** RIVER *** [Ts Qd 9d Td] [Qc]
    POTTERPOKER: bets 9050 and is all-in
    baletta: folds
    Uncalled bet (9050) returned to POTTERPOKER
    POTTERPOKER collected 1925 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 1925 | Rake 0
    Board [Ts Qd 9d Td Qc]
    Seat 1: tpir90036 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: hdezpoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: beeschnuts (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: redhookesb (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 7: POTTERPOKER (big blind) collected (1925)
    Seat 8: polpolpol folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: baletta folded on the River

    Potter OBV can beat a Queen. What would you do if you are balletta and have TT, for quad tens!

    can you really fold quads?

    Can you really beat anything but a stupid improbable bluff?
     
  2. G.I. Ace G.I. Ace is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2009 (4/5/2009 5:45pm) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    Well potterpoker is obviously hoping that baletta has a hand and will call his shove (since he has a 50% ROI in 1450 MTT's he knows what he's doing and is not trying to steal this pot with an idiotic shove on the river). I don't think he would shove a Q here because he'd want value for his Q vs a T, same with QQ probably. Maybe he has the KJ of diamonds, I dno. Interesting spot hmmm.
  3. Leet8s Leet8s is offline usausausausausa

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    Apr 5th, 2009 (4/5/2009 5:57pm) in reply to G.I. Ace

    Pretty sure I'm calling with quad 10s..., only hands that beat him are J8dd and QQ cause cypriot has Kd in his hand
     
  4. Crazy Cypriot Crazy Cypriot is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2009 (4/5/2009 10:25pm) in reply to Leet8s

    ugh! ignore my hand...

    but yeah , the shover obv has more than a Q 99% of the time...

    so quad tens... are in essence a bluff catcher...

    can anyone find a fold , not in theory, but in real time in the game?
     
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  5. FouTight FouTight is offline international super spy

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    Apr 5th, 2009 (4/5/2009 10:33pm) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    i never ever fold TT there... maybe im bad, maybe its just i dont like folding quads
    730 
  6. TMLMS13 TMLMS13 is online now

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    Apr 5th, 2009 (4/5/2009 10:36pm) in reply to FouTight

    I didnt think it was possible to fold quads on a board w/o trips on it
  7. stevie444 stevie444 is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2009 (4/5/2009 10:39pm) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    obv never folding tt. misclicks happen and people play bad.
    91 12
  8. DaPretzel DaPretzel is offline

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    Apr 5th, 2009 (4/5/2009 11:57pm) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

     
    Originally Posted by Crazy Cypriot View Post

    but yeah , the shover obv has more than a Q 99% of the time...

    This seems high.....really interested to hear more about why you think this...
     
  9. DEEZZZ_NUTS DEEZZZ_NUTS is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 12:32am) in reply to DaPretzel

     
    Originally Posted by Crazy Cypriot View Post

    but yeah , the shover obv has more than a Q 99% of the time...

    I'd prob quit poker if i folded quad 10's on that board in a 300 donkament
     
  10. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 1:18am) in reply to DEEZZZ_NUTS

     
    Originally Posted by DEEZZZ_NUTS View Post

    I'd prob quit poker if i folded quad 10's on that board in a 300 donkament

    170 2 

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  11. Shrubbery Shrubbery is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 2:09am) in reply to Gags30

    lol at ever folding quads
     1
  12. kingp1n kingp1n is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 2:17am) in reply to Shrubbery

    i hope poker is still profitable when folding quads becomes standard/ez fold. cant wait!
     
  13. Crazy Cypriot Crazy Cypriot is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 7:08am) in reply to kingp1n

    ugh...

    i am not trying to say that folding quads is correct. i have trouble folding junk hands, not quads:)

    however, given that the shover is a player with over 1000 tourneys, and a positive good ROI at a mid to high level, i cannot see him doing this with a single Queen.

    This move seems like, no one can ever fold a full house, so i push for value...

    i am not saying in this specific situation, for this specific tournament, but can anyone actually fold TT there? , in a different tournament or whatever

    the fact is that from his pokerdb we can see that the shover is NOT a donk... i dunno.. it just got me thinking and i think even though we d snap call with TT, its a hand that deservers extra thought
     
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  14. Frank1The1Tank Frank1The1Tank is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 7:18am) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    If you're folding quads to my river shove here, i'm shoving ATC. GL sir.
     
  15. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is online now

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 8:09am) in reply to Frank1The1Tank

     
    Originally Posted by Frank1The1Tank View Post

    If you're folding quads to my river shove here, i'm shoving ATC. GL sir.

    No you're not. And we know you're not. TT would be the sickest laydown of all-time; I would timebank then call, but I can see an argument for folding here. I am folding a Q though.

    EDIT: I am 99% sure villain has J8DD or TT here.
    660 1
  16. Crazy Cypriot Crazy Cypriot is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 4:16pm) in reply to Pghfan987

    ^^^ that was my point...

    if villain is a thinking opponent, thinking at a good level, and not 4839048933890 levels above us... those are the only cards he could have
     
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  17. Dead Money Dom Dead Money Dom is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 4:25pm) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    this isnt funny.
     
  18. ReBinkRiver ReBinkRiver is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 4:28pm) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    This thread is a joke.

    It's one long level.

    I almost see a case for folding a Q, almost. Potter played it like he has a Q though. CRAI the flop, check the turn, shove river? I mean he might have a straight flush, but give me a break, did anyone OPR the opponent he shoves into? Maybe he's a big loser and potter tried to get paid with a Q vs a 10 or AA or something. As far as I'm concerned I'm SNAP CALLING 1010, and I'm probably never folding a Q on the river either.
  19. stevie444 stevie444 is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 5:05pm) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    If villain is a thinking opponent thinking at a good level, what possible reason would he have to jam river instead of check raising with quads+.
    91 12
  20. DaPretzel DaPretzel is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 5:18pm) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    I don't see how you can say this:

     
    Originally Posted by Crazy Cypriot View Post

    but yeah , the shover obv has more than a Q 99% of the time...

    and this:

     
    Originally Posted by Crazy Cypriot View Post


    i think even though we d snap call with TT, its a hand that deservers extra thought

    in the same thread.
     
  21. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is online now

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 6:55pm) in reply to stevie444

     
    Originally Posted by stevie444 View Post

    If villain is a thinking opponent thinking at a good level, what possible reason would he have to jam river instead of check raising with quads+.

    He could c/r, but I think he is shoving here because he crushes a Q and knows a random with a Q won't fold.

    Are you calling with a Q here Stevie? I'm not.
    660 1
  22. stevie444 stevie444 is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 7:05pm) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by stevie444 View Post

    If villain is a thinking opponent thinking at a good level, what possible reason would he have to jam river instead of check raising with quads+.

    He could c/r, but I think he is shoving here because he crushes a Q and knows a random with a Q won't fold.

    Are you calling with a Q here Stevie? I'm not.

    A random with a Q is never checking behind so check shoving has to be better than open shoving unless the random with a Q will fold to the checkshove but call the 9x pot open jam which makes no sense because the c/r looks more like a bluff.
    91 12
  23. shanetrain22 shanetrain22 is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 7:29pm) in reply to stevie444

     
    Originally Posted by stevie444 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by stevie444 View Post

    If villain is a thinking opponent thinking at a good level, what possible reason would he have to jam river instead of check raising with quads+.

    He could c/r, but I think he is shoving here because he crushes a Q and knows a random with a Q won't fold.

    Are you calling with a Q here Stevie? I'm not.

    A random with a Q is never checking behind so check shoving has to be better than open shoving unless the random with a Q will fold to the checkshove but call the 9x pot open jam which makes no sense because the c/r looks more like a bluff.

    Stevie is obv dead on (not like I needed to verify this). Another reason c/r rather than straight shipping is better is it gives the preflop rasier a chance to stab w/ a missed draw (i.e. AJ).
     1
  24. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is online now

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 9:27pm) in reply to shanetrain22

     
    Originally Posted by shanetrain22 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by stevie444 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by stevie444 View Post

    If villain is a thinking opponent thinking at a good level, what possible reason would he have to jam river instead of check raising with quads+.

    He could c/r, but I think he is shoving here because he crushes a Q and knows a random with a Q won't fold.

    Are you calling with a Q here Stevie? I'm not.

    A random with a Q is never checking behind so check shoving has to be better than open shoving unless the random with a Q will fold to the checkshove but call the 9x pot open jam which makes no sense because the c/r looks more like a bluff.

    Stevie is obv dead on (not like I needed to verify this). Another reason c/r rather than straight shipping is better is it gives the preflop rasier a chance to stab w/ a missed draw (i.e. AJ).

    With all due respect, I think Stevie is thinking of the optimal play and not what actually transpired. Maybe he should have check shoved, but he didn't, but he still beats a single Q. What do you put him on???
    660 1
  25. stevie444 stevie444 is offline

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    Apr 6th, 2009 (4/6/2009 11:53pm) in reply to Pghfan987

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by shanetrain22 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by stevie444 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post

     
    Originally Posted by stevie444 View Post

    If villain is a thinking opponent thinking at a good level, what possible reason would he have to jam river instead of check raising with quads+.

    He could c/r, but I think he is shoving here because he crushes a Q and knows a random with a Q won't fold.

    Are you calling with a Q here Stevie? I'm not.

    A random with a Q is never checking behind so check shoving has to be better than open shoving unless the random with a Q will fold to the checkshove but call the 9x pot open jam which makes no sense because the c/r looks more like a bluff.

    Stevie is obv dead on (not like I needed to verify this). Another reason c/r rather than straight shipping is better is it gives the preflop rasier a chance to stab w/ a missed draw (i.e. AJ).

    With all due respect, I think Stevie is thinking of the optimal play and not what actually transpired. Maybe he should have check shoved, but he didn't, but he still beats a single Q. What do you put him on???

    I only mentioned that because it was said that if villain was a good high level thinking player the only hands he could have would be TT or J8dd which doesnt make sense because shoving those hands is clearly infinite worse than check shoving and a good high level thinking player would realise that. I think theres a very decent chance the guy just has a Q and wants to get called by a ten and like I said before, misclicks happen - def cant rule out the chance he tried to make it 1200 and actually made it 12000 and ended up shoving.
    91 12
  26. gwilliams1028 gwilliams1028 is offline

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    Apr 7th, 2009 (4/7/2009 12:26am) in reply to stevie444

    You guys may be on a different level than me but I don't think you can rule out shoving a Q trying to make it look weak and inducing a call from a T or just shoving hoping to get another Q to fold and take the 2K in the pot. J8dd and TT are definitely in his range but not the only 2 hands in it.
  27. ucfchamp ucfchamp is offline

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    Apr 7th, 2009 (4/7/2009 2:51am) in reply to gwilliams1028

    Its def an interesting hand, its too hard to analyze because there are too many variables, if its bax vs annette, i think it would be easier to analyze. Pretty much i agree with most here, prolly shover has a q, and just hopin for misclick, or take down the pot, pushing another q out, etc.
     
  28. Pghfan987 Pghfan987 is online now

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    Apr 7th, 2009 (4/7/2009 2:58am) in reply to ucfchamp

    It is of course possible that this guy has just a Q, but I don't think it is likely. I think he value bets the Q hoping to get called by a T. As I have said several times, I don't think he expects his opponent to fold a Q, so jamming to unchop a split pot would be futile. I think he is trying to get maximum value out of his J8DD or TT.

    EDIT: I suppose it could be a misclick when he tried to value bet his Q, but given the info I still thinks this is a value shove with a monster on a board where his opponent could easily have a full house.
    660 1
  29. marinersheep marinersheep is offline This is stupid.

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    Apr 7th, 2009 (4/7/2009 3:22am) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    looks like potterpoker has TT to me, which makes it very tough to answer the question in the OP.
     
  30. Crazy Cypriot Crazy Cypriot is offline

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    Apr 7th, 2009 (4/7/2009 4:27am) in reply to marinersheep

    i also think he has TT most of the time... or a straight flush
     
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