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WCOOP #20 final table hand

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  1. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:06am)

    Just wondering if I could get some general thoughts on this hand from tonight's final table. Comments on everything (including others' hands) appreciate. I'm guessing D__RY folded KK or possibly AA here (he timed all the way down); would be nice to hear.

    <span>READ ME: </span>Cobra was playing very, very nitty (about 5/4), which is important here I think. I have never seen him before, and I don't think it's impossible for him to lead JJ here despite what anyone may think of that play.

    pokerstars GAME #12332303098: TOURNAMENT #70000020, $500+$30 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - MATCH ROUND III, LEVEL III (25/50) - 2007/09/29 - 03:21:22 (ET)
    Table '70000020 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: adotlee (1720 in chips)
    Seat 2: lyerly_ (2280 in chips)
    Seat 3: "Dumping"KGB (3910 in chips)
    Seat 4: Cobra234 (3145 in chips)
    Seat 5: Nutedawg (2365 in chips)
    Seat 6: Zock'n'Rock (4700 in chips)
    Seat 7: THE__D__RY (3205 in chips)
    Seat 8: AJunglen7 (3200 in chips)
    Seat 9: pannipha (2475 in chips)
    adotlee: posts small blind 25
    lyerly_: posts big blind 50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Nutedawg [Qs Qh]
    "Dumping"KGB: folds
    Cobra234: raises 100 to 150
    Nutedawg: calls 150
    Zock'n'Rock: folds
    THE__D__RY: raises 325 to 475
    AJunglen7: folds
    pannipha: folds
    adotlee: folds
    lyerly_: folds
    Cobra234: calls 325
    Nutedawg: calls 325
    *** FLOP *** [7d Jd 2c]
    Cobra234: bets 900
    Nutedawg: folds
    THE__D__RY: folds
    Cobra234 collected 1500 from pot
    Cobra234: doesn't show hand

    Thanks in advance for constructive comments.
  2. A_Junglen A_Junglen is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:12am) in reply to Episteme

    WOW, you had QQ?
  3. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:13am) in reply to A_Junglen

    I was set mining. I think.
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  4. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:15am) in reply to A_Junglen

    I don't think D__RY would squeeze that guy without being huge preflop but I could be wrong.
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  5. spectrefax spectrefax is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:15am) in reply to Episteme

    Why cant he have Ad-Kd here as well? Seems like an identical line for that hand.
     
  6. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:16am) in reply to spectrefax

    yeah he could
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  7. Stupor_Mundi Stupor_Mundi is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:39am) in reply to Episteme

    You really put them on these big hands? I think D_RY three bets a big range here given the EP raise and call and I seriously think cobra leads here on AKd or AJ. A set is certainly a possibility, but open folding QQ here is a strange move. You didn't represent strength once in this hand with a strong hand and you let yourself get bullied into folding. I realize it's a FT and I would probably be shitting myself, but at least 3-bet preflop with this hand. If D_RY pops you, you know what is going on, but with the line you took here, you got no value out of QQ AND you got absolutely no information in the process.
  8. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:42am) in reply to Stupor_Mundi

    had nothing to do w/ it being a final table. I sincerely doubt that Cobra is raising AJ UTG+1. I'm telling you, he had played one hand the whole FT. He was playing super nit, and I don't think that D___RY missed this. I really doubt that he would try to squeeze without a very good hand here. Once Cobra donks, D___RY's presence made me think it was a pretty no brainer fold, but I am open to hearing other opinions.
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  9. HouseeLover HouseeLover is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:52am) in reply to Episteme

    I know what he had and cobras play looked very strange here think d__ry made a good fold
     
  10. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 4:56am) in reply to Episteme

    Reraise preflop. Why cold call with QQ?
  11. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:02am) in reply to HouseeLover

    So I'm like 90% sure it was KK/QQ now
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  12. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:05am) in reply to 1.21Gigawatts

    I think cold calling a 5/4 UTG+1 raiser w/ QQ is the right play.
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  13. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:10am) in reply to Episteme

    You have all this data based on the early stages of what is basically a SNG?? Doesn't everyone play a 5/4 at this point???

    It's not like a loose aggressive game works in a 9-handed tournament.
  14. SCTrojans SCTrojans is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:11am) in reply to Episteme

    This is a very odd hand. I think the preflop call with QQ is fine with no information that the original raiser will be calling a lot of your raises oop with weaker hands...

    I'm confused at the really small reraise out of Danny here. Im 99% certain its not QQ-AA and would be willing to bet a large sum of money that it was AK and he was just trying to build the pot in position, but I could be wrong.

    I'm sorry I just don't see Cobra234 leading for 900 into two players including a re-raise with better than QQ... I just don't....

    AdKd is an easy check-raise all-in hand for Cobra234 theres almost no chance he has AdKd.

    I really think he had QJ KJ AJ or something retarded and worse...

    I dunno such a weird spot with Danny behind you....................

    I think you played the hand fine give Danny behind you but in retrospect I think you had the best hand.
     13
  15. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:13am) in reply to SCTrojans

    e
  16. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:15am) in reply to SCTrojans

    SC,

    So you jam the flop then?

    I have like 500 hands w/ D__RY so I couldn't really see into his soul other than to think he'd be pretty big to 3-bet here. From the hands I do have with him, it seemed like he would flat w/ AK here (have seen him flat QQ and AK other times).

    Thanks
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  17. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:16am) in reply to Episteme

    <TABLE cellPadding=2 border=0 celspacing="0"><TBODY><TR><TD>I think cold calling a 5/4 UTG+1 raiser w/ QQ is the right play.

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>For what? Set value?? What are you hoping for? A ten-high flop?
  18. SCTrojans SCTrojans is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:16am) in reply to Episteme

    Yeah I really don't hate the way you played the hand at all with Danny behind you... such a terribly awkward spot...
     13
  19. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:16am) in reply to 1.21Gigawatts

    who are you talking about?
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  20. Jsup Jsup is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:17am) in reply to 1.21Gigawatts

    pretty good spot to push with qq here because dry knows cobra is tight and assumes u know he is tight as well and would probably fold kk-aa to a 900 lead and a shove from you...i dont think dry had aa-kk-qq though b.c after u folded i would find it hard to believe the he would fold one of those 3 hands just because a seemingly nitty player lead into 2 players..i would bet my left testicle he had ak soooted although he did tank it contrary to what giga said...i guess its possible he laid and overpair but i doubt it and although its a tough spot given the huge payout jumps i would have shoved qq on that flop for the reasons stated above
  21. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:19am) in reply to Episteme

    e
  22. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:21am) in reply to 1.21Gigawatts

    QQA flop, duh
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  23. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:29am) in reply to Episteme

    This is a tough hand, because of the dynamics of early-stage SNG play along with the big money payout of a Sunday tournament.

    I don't know how I'd react to any of these hands. But still, I don't think The__D_ry is folding KK or AA here ever.
  24. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 5:36am) in reply to 1.21Gigawatts

    I guess I shouldn't have put so much focus on the numbers. Suffice it to say he was in super uber nit mode
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  25. Stupor_Mundi Stupor_Mundi is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 6:39am) in reply to Episteme

    What exactly is the argument for a cold call pre here? Cobra is a nit? It seems pretty early in the table, so I'm guessing people were feeling each other out. I really want to 3-bet here and find out where I am, because QQ is easily a hand that you can go broke on on a good flop (like this one) without knowledge of what's behind you. D__RY's trickiness also comes into play. I really think if you had 3-bet Cobra and D__RY repopped you, Cobra would have dumped his hand. It's an awkward spot, but I think the awkwardness was made worse by misplaying QQ.
  26. Fife19 Fife19 is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 6:42am) in reply to Stupor_Mundi

    Do these "nitty" stats include the fact that cobra was sitting out for the first hour of play at the final table?
  27. BigBadDevil BigBadDevil is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 6:50am) in reply to Episteme

    your action on the flop is the exact reason you dont call preflop u reraise to get info!!!

    if you do call it should be to induce a squeeze so you can reraise.
  28. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 6:56am) in reply to Fife19

    he palyed one hand since he got back. it was over several hands.
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  29. Episteme Episteme is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 6:58am) in reply to BigBadDevil

    If I put 20% of my money in preflop w/ QQ, I am not folding to a shove. This is info that I would rather not pay for.
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  30. BigBadDevil BigBadDevil is offline

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    Sep 29th, 2007 (9/29/2007 7:01am) in reply to Episteme

    so instead of reraising to 450-475, you call and let someone else raise and then you call there raise. so now you put the same amount of money in and the only info you have gained is that the UTG+1 does not have AA.

    then you get a great flop for your hand, and you fold.

    edit: hope that didn't come off rude nute. im tired.
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