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what should i do

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  1. drnobody1 drnobody1 is offline

    Eemnes
    Netherlands

    Posts: 78
    Joined: Aug 10

    Sep 23rd, 2010 (9/23/2010 2:31pm)

    Futzali has raised 8% of the pots pre flop what should I do here and why

    pokerstars Game #50045875161: Tournament #313975292, $3.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2010/09/23 9:27:53 ET
    Table '313975292 1' 10-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: DrN obody1 (2515 in chips)
    Seat 2: Roam1985 (1520 in chips)
    Seat 4: sever076 (1565 in chips)
    Seat 5: futzati (2430 in chips)
    Seat 6: osdorpmaster (1145 in chips)
    Seat 7: theooodoorr (990 in chips)
    Seat 8: damiano879 (1500 in chips)
    Seat 9: SuperAidan (1445 in chips)
    Seat 10: chrigel23 (1890 in chips)
    chrigel23: posts small blind 50
    DrNobody1: posts big blind 100
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to DrNobody1 [Jc Tc]
    Roam1985: folds
    sever076: folds
    futzati: raises 200 to 300
    osdorpmaster: folds
    theooodoorr: folds
    damiano879: folds
    SuperAidan: folds
    chrigel23: folds
    DrNobody1: calls 200
    *** FLOP *** [3c 6c Ks]
    DrNobody1: checks
    futzati: bets 300
    DrNobody1:
  2. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

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    Sep 23rd, 2010 (9/23/2010 2:58pm) in reply to drnobody1

    I think you aren't deep enough to play a speculative hand like JTs to a raise pre-flop, out of position. I'm pretty sure you'll disagree.

    As played, the only reason to check there is to check-raise, which commits you to call whatever he does.
     
  3. aad aad is offline

    Detroit, MI
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    Sep 23rd, 2010 (9/23/2010 3:38pm) in reply to drnobody1

    fold or else check-raise allin. He may have 99-QQ and read from your checkraise allin that you paired your king, tried to trap with it and fold. And if he calls you really aren't that far behind with your flushdraw. But whatever you do, do not flat his raise.

    Heel veel succes!
    Edited By: aad Sep 23rd, 2010 at 03:47 PM
  4. drnobody1 drnobody1 is offline

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    Sep 23rd, 2010 (9/23/2010 5:07pm) in reply to grapsfan

     
    Originally Posted by grapsfan View Post

    I think you aren't deep enough to play a speculative hand like JTs to a raise pre-flop, out of position. I'm pretty sure you'll disagree.

    As played, the only reason to check there is to check-raise, which commits you to call whatever he does.

    Why do you think I would disagree? (Most of the time I just disagree for the sake of the discussion)
    JTs is at the bottom of my calling range
    and I agree to the reraise but it should be a allin reraise in my opinion
    Thread Starter
  5. DiamondDixi DiamondDixi is offline

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    Sep 23rd, 2010 (9/23/2010 9:49pm) in reply to drnobody1

    I agree you're not deep enough to call OOP with JT here and it's just a little too light to be 3 betting but as played post flop it's a fold or check raise all in.
  6. luckierno7 luckierno7 is offline

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    Sep 23rd, 2010 (9/23/2010 9:57pm) in reply to DiamondDixi

    yeah check raise all in; i think u have FE because of his weakish c bet; i also call but i know it s one of my leaks calling in the bb too often;
    Edited By: luckierno7 Sep 23rd, 2010 at 09:59 PM
    118 
  7. drnobody1 drnobody1 is offline

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    Sep 24th, 2010 (9/24/2010 10:08am) in reply to luckierno7

     
    Originally Posted by luckierno7 View Post

    yeah check raise all in; i think u have FE because of his weakish c bet; i also call but i know it s one of my leaks calling in the bb too often;

     
    Originally Posted by grapsfan View Post

    I think you aren't deep enough to play a speculative hand like JTs to a raise pre-flop, out of position. I'm pretty sure you'll disagree.

    I check my PT database for JTs in the BB and my conclusion is that calling is the best action
    Dealt JTs in BB facing a raise 44 times mase 0.14BB per hand
    Called with JTs in BB facing a raise 25 times made 2.10BB per hand

    According to my data base calling is the best action preflop.

    Could anybody post there JTs BB stats?
    Thread Starter
  8. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

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    Sep 24th, 2010 (9/24/2010 2:41pm) in reply to drnobody1

    Those stats cover all stack sizes, correct? The numbers cannot be applied in a vacuum...the correctness of the play doesn't rely just on whether or not PT says you play JTs profitably from the big blind. You need a deep enough stack for the implied odds to be correct.
     
  9. drnobody1 drnobody1 is offline

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    Sep 24th, 2010 (9/24/2010 4:29pm) in reply to grapsfan

     
    Originally Posted by grapsfan View Post

    Those stats cover all stack sizes, correct? The numbers cannot be applied in a vacuum...the correctness of the play doesn't rely just on whether or not PT says you play JTs profitably from the big blind. You need a deep enough stack for the implied odds to be correct.

    but how deep is the point where it gets profitble
    Thread Starter
  10. Jesterr01 Jesterr01 is offline

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    Sep 24th, 2010 (9/24/2010 4:39pm) in reply to drnobody1

    I'm no pro or expert, but with those blinds, I would have over 3000 before playing around with suited connectors OOP, preferably about 3700
  11. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

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    Sep 24th, 2010 (9/24/2010 4:45pm) in reply to drnobody1

     
    Originally Posted by drnobody1 View Post

    but how deep is the point where it gets profitble

    My standard rule of thumb for a suited connectors hand is that I need both of us to have at least 20x the raise size behind (if I remember right, you're about 20:1 to flop two pair or better with something like JTs). So I'd want both of us to have at least 4k. Neither of you do.
     
  12. DiamondDixi DiamondDixi is offline

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    Sep 24th, 2010 (9/24/2010 7:09pm) in reply to grapsfan

    Yeah I think SCs play very similarly to small pocket pairs and without 20:1 odds they're not usually profitable. As a rule in a sng (assuming this is a sng) with the shallow stacks it generally becomes unprofitable to play SCs or small pps after the 25/50 level without very good odds.

    I imagine I could justify a lot of plays with my PT3 results but that wouldn't necessarily make the plays correct over a large sample size. Last months my KK was only winning at about 65% so does that mean I should think of folding it more often, I think not.
    Edited By: DiamondDixi Sep 24th, 2010 at 07:14 PM
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