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What will you do if....

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  1. lilprog79 lilprog79 is offline

    Monticello, IL
    United States

    Posts: 624
    Joined: May 05

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 7:08am)

    There is a 15 month blackout on internet poker in the us? It`s a long shot to happen, this was text in an old revision of the bill and if that text does still exist the bill would still have to pass, hopefully the ppa has been successful in getting that changed, but if that was to end up the case, and sites like stars and ftp blocked us like they did washington, what would you do? I`m a full time player and I have almost no clue. The nearest casino is over an hour away, and I`m a non nlhe specialist, so I`m not sure how confident I would be in my 2 card at this point....
     
  2. Turt22 Turt22 is offline

    IL
    United States

    Posts: 266
    Joined: Jan 09

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 8:22am) in reply to lilprog79

    move to canada..... hahahaha
  3. Deoxyribo Deoxyribo is offline

    Costa Mesa, CA
    United States

    Posts: 5,045
    Joined: Jun 08

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 8:31am) in reply to Turt22

    Get good at liveaments
     
  4. shawnie2dope shawnie2dope is offline

    Rochester, NY
    United States

    Posts: 109
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 4:44pm) in reply to Deoxyribo

    sell drugs
     
  5. apology7 apology7 is offline Cake Poker PLB Champ

    Posts: 1,051
    Joined: Mar 06

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 5:56pm) in reply to Deoxyribo

     
    Originally Posted by Deoxyribo View Post

    Get good at liveaments

    maybe buy some scratch-offs too. I'm not entirely joking.

    I've been thinking about what I'd do a lot over the past couple of days and it's either:

    a) take a 100k paycut and work a shitty entry level office job if they would even hire me
    b) move to LA, LV, or somewhere in FL and grind live cash (sadly only 2/5 or 5/10 NL)- probably make a lot less money and be miserable sitting w/ degens all day.
    c) stay where I'm at now and drive an hour to play in a charity poker game w/ a bunch of smelly degens 4 days a week
    d) do absolutely nothing for 15 months
    e) temporarily move to canada or costa rica or something and grind

    I have a gf and family here. I'd have to pretty much start a new life if I had to move and play live poker.

    15 months will go by, and we'll either have a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or a bunch of hodge-podge poker rooms with only 15 states being able to play. The future looks grim.
    Edited By: apology7 Dec 5th, 2010 at 05:57 PM
    1 
  6. RazorFish00 RazorFish00 is offline

    Moose Jaw
    Canada

    Posts: 507
    Joined: Sep 09

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 5:59pm) in reply to apology7

    why make it sound so glum?? Canada is not that far from you and sure housing is a little more expensive depending on what you want, but on the plus side there is no enforced gambling tax like in the states.
  7. allin4flush allin4flush is offline

    Portland, OR
    United States

    Posts: 372
    Joined: Jul 09

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 6:21pm) in reply to RazorFish00

    From what I understand, FTP and PS will be forced to take the 15 months off, but places like Harrah's will be able to start new online companies immediately. Wouldn't everyone just withdraw and start playing on the new Harrah's or MGM sites? I imagine those casinos are ready to switch cash games online the day they are able.

    The thing about the current bill's language that scares me is the "20% of all deposits" monthly licensing fee.
  8. apology7 apology7 is offline Cake Poker PLB Champ

    Posts: 1,051
    Joined: Mar 06

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 6:33pm) in reply to allin4flush

     
    Originally Posted by allin4flush View Post

    From what I understand, FTP and PS will be forced to take the 15 months off, but places like Harrah's will be able to start new online companies immediately. Wouldn't everyone just withdraw and start playing on the new Harrah's or MGM sites? I imagine those casinos are ready to switch cash games online the day they are able.

    The thing about the current bill's language that scares me is the "20% of all deposits" monthly licensing fee.

    from what I gather it would be a total 15 month blackout for all online rooms. this is to 'insure' that someone can't have an edge in the new market. once the 15 months ends then you will be able to play on the new networks. from what I hear the language of the bill may be changed and this time-frame may be greatly lessened, so we'll hope for that.

    the 20% will be taxed on the casinos side. ie: you deposit 1k, ceasers has to pay the gov $200. obviously individual players will have to pay tax on any winnings, but they should be paying taxes anyway.
    1 
  9. Skallagrim Skallagrim is offline

    Portsmouth, NH
    United States

    Posts: 90
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 6:55pm) in reply to apology7

    To be clear, the 20% tax is on the sites take (rake + tournament fees + any other kind of fee to play), not the players deposits. Given the lower operating costs gained by an openly legal market, and the open (to one degree or another) competition, few expect the tax provision of this bill to have much effect. In fact a lot of folks think total rake (i.e., deduct promotions and bonuses) may actually go down a bit.

    The transition period will be tough. The final details are still under negotiation, but some kind of transition period is inevitable. It will happen in the following manner if the bill passes:

    1) A short period after passage for the status quo to continue.

    2) Then a period where any site that eventually wants to get a US license will have to return the players money and stop offering games in the US (PS and FTP will clearly abide by this as they want a license, on the other extreme, Bodog has flaunted all US law for years and will not stop its games as it could never get a license anyway - your guess is as good as mine as to sites in between those two extremes). This is the "15 month period" being talked about and you can see how difficult it will be for regular players. The PPA is actively negotiating to shorten this period, wish us luck.

    3) After that period US licensed sites will appear. The bill expects there to be many such sites though they will initially be restricted to sites owned by large casinos. horse tracks, or gaming equipment suppliers. This will, of course, give the Nevada interests their time to build up their sites without competition. This period is finite, however, and the current draft says it lasts for 2 years. Also during this time there will be no international play, sites can only have US players.

    4) But after those 2 periods of limitation, things start to get really good. Any company, including stars and FTP can then seek a license. The rule barring foreign players can be withdrawn at that time too (international trade agreements can affect this however, either for good or bad).

    So after maybe a year of real pain, then 2 years of somewhat limited competition, we finally get what we really want: openly legal, fully consumer protected, and fiercely competitive online US poker.

    Is the end worth the initial price? That is what you may soon be called upon to decide or deal with.

    And one final difficulty. The bill allows for states to opt out of the system. If you live in a fiercely anti-gambling state, you may want to consider planning to move if playing is that important to you (unless you are happy playing merely on Bodog and the other sites that will continue to exist just like online sports books continue to exist). If you live in most states you will need to stay politically active so that your state opts in to the system. Given the revenue stream this system creates at virtually no cost to the state, we figure most, but hardly all, states will eventually opt in.

    And, of course, none of this is a done deal yet.

    Skallagrim
    Edited By: Skallagrim Dec 5th, 2010 at 06:57 PM
  10. allin4flush allin4flush is offline

    Portland, OR
    United States

    Posts: 372
    Joined: Jul 09

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 6:55pm) in reply to apology7

     
    Originally Posted by apology7 View Post

    from what I gather it would be a total 15 month blackout for all online rooms.

    Oh, my mistake, I went through and reread the Pokerati analysis of the bill and I see you're right. I think I was confused because of the 15 month waiting period, then two year analysis period.

     

    the 20% will be taxed on the casinos side. ie: you deposit 1k, ceasers has to pay the gov $200. obviously individual players will have to pay tax on any winnings, but they should be paying taxes anyway.

    I agree that they should be paying taxes (trust me I think low taxes are why the economy sucks in the US) but paying 20% on deposits is ridiculous. Paying taxes on profits, yes... but on deposits? There's no way they could pay 20% on the money flowing through the site without having to pass that along to us. For example, if there's a $100+10 tournament with 1000 entries, there'll be $110,000 worth of deposits to play... but the site will have to pay $20,000 in licensing fees. If the rake is $10,000, how does the site come up with the other $10k? We'd be looking at $100+30 tournaments (or in my case, $3+1 or $5+2) just so the sites can make profits... and with my live experience at Harrah's/MGM, they're going to look for much higher profits than PS/FTP are currently enjoying. Hopefully the rate is adjusted reasonably... paying taxes on profits, by both the player and the casino, should really be the right way to go.
  11. wes_mc wes_mc is offline

    Raleigh, NC
    United States

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    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 7:01pm) in reply to apology7

     
    Originally Posted by apology7 View Post

    the 20% will be taxed on the casinos side. ie: you deposit 1k, ceasers has to pay the gov $200. obviously individual players will have to pay tax on any winnings, but they should be paying taxes anyway.

    Most businesses tend to pass on at least some of the costs of higher taxes and other overhead expenses to the consumer. In this case that could take the form of deposit fees or higher rakes.
    Edited By: wes_mc Dec 5th, 2010 at 07:02 PM
  12. Skallagrim Skallagrim is offline

    Portsmouth, NH
    United States

    Posts: 90
    Joined: May 07

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 10:01pm) in reply to wes_mc

    Apparently no one reads my posts but I will try again. Despite what anyone may have told you, THE 20% TAX IN THIS BILL IS ON THE SITE'S RAKE NOT THE PLAYER'S DEPOSITS.

    Skallagrim
  13. TrueMetalMan TrueMetalMan is offline

    Posts: 781
    Joined: Feb 10

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 10:19pm) in reply to Skallagrim

    I would prolly do better in school and play more live cash... In Daytona. smelly degens here I come.
  14. gregrum gregrum is offline

    Denton, TX
    United States

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    Joined: Sep 08

    Dec 5th, 2010 (12/5/2010 10:28pm) in reply to TrueMetalMan

    link to this info?
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