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What is your philosophy on playing AK in Mid-Late stages of tourneys?

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  1. PocketPJW PocketPJW is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:50am)

    Hypothetical situation, you have a 12k stack, Average is around 15k w/ blinds at 500/1000, 95 players remain of 600 with top 60 paying ... LAG Donkish player w/ 18k chips raises to 3k UTG + 1, you have AK in the Cut off, re-raise all in, Donk calls with 10 10 (bad call) and it's GG you. This happens so many times to not only myself, but other people I know as well.

    So my question is, to some of you people out there, do you have a rule(s) of thumb regarding when you re-raise all in, when to call, and perhaps when to fold?
  2. THAY3R THAY3R is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:55am) in reply to PocketPJW

    Don't be so quick to call it a bad call.
    43 
  3. aces4free aces4free is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:56am) in reply to PocketPJW

    you r definitely calling.
    u play to win.
  4. computerb computerb is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:01am) in reply to aces4free

    Fold to the money. Skeet to win.
  5. PocketPJW PocketPJW is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:03am) in reply to THAY3R

    I disagree, unless you have some sort of crazy read, calling off 75% of your stack with 10 10, is pretty donkish. But I'm a donk myself, so what do i know :)
    Thread Starter
  6. Dyzalot Dyzalot is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:08am) in reply to PocketPJW

    Standard race situation. No one played it poorly. These are the ones you have to win to get deep in tournaments.
     3
  7. timex timex is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:23am) in reply to PocketPJW

    FWIW, I instashove the AK, and instacall the TT.
     11
  8. THAY3R THAY3R is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:24am) in reply to PocketPJW

    The only way this is a bad call is if your pushing range is only JJ+ and AK. This is assuming there are no antes, if there are antes no matter what range you have its a good call as long as AK is in it.
    43 
  9. GambleAB GambleAB is offline 1. I'm awesome

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:25am) in reply to PocketPJW

    Good call with TT. You have 12BB, you are shoving a pretty ride range of hands here. AK should be one of them.
     
  10. I Fold I Fold is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:27am) in reply to PocketPJW

    If your pushing with the assumption that he has rags or is weak its ok- he had the better hand and it held....but if you thought he was strong you might flat call see a flop there so your still in the tourney and can work your way back up if you miss...very passive preflop- but it makes you less commited if you miss which you will alot- you can also stab at the pot with AK if checked to you on the flop.
  11. THAY3R THAY3R is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 4:33am) in reply to PocketPJW

    Also, statements like "calling off 75% of your stack with 10 10 is pretty donkish" is pretty donkish.
    43 
  12. rugger48 rugger48 is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 12:09pm) in reply to PocketPJW

    1st Id like to say Hi, I live in bradenton, so its cool to see somebody here from the area. 2nd correct me if Im wrong, but isnt 10/10 the better preflop hand here? why would you call this a bad call. Sounds like you started feeling the pressure of the blinds catching up, and felt like you needed to double up.
  13. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 12:37pm) in reply to I Fold

    I dont want to sound like a dick but if you arent very good and dont know what your talking about you really shouldnt give hand advice
     12
  14. JWangSDC JWangSDC is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 12:39pm) in reply to rugger48

    He said it because AA/KK/AK are in a league of their own. AK is not dominated by anything short of KK.

    What happens when you run TT into JJ/QQ/KK/AA/AK? You're on the losing end.

    Now run AK into TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA/AK...its much better plus the odds of running AK into AA/KK/AK are less.

    Note: not saying TT instacall is bad, I race there all day(and lose allday)
  15. pageh656 pageh656 is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 12:55pm) in reply to PocketPJW

    Him having the LAG image helps him here in that the range you are pushing may be slightly wider. This late in a tournament, everybody has Medium to Low M's, so the pushing and calling requirements aren't as tight as you are thinking.

    TT vs 88+, AJ+: 49%
    TT vs JJ+, AQ+: 40%
    TT vs QQ+, AK: 36%

    He was calling 9k to win 16,500(plus any antes). 1.83:1 odds. Only needs to be 36% against range for the call to be +EV. WHich he is versus even the tightest range of hands you could have.

    AK vs 88+, AJ+: 54%
    AK vs JJ+, AQ+: 53%
    AK vs QQ+, AK: 42%

    AK matches up well against any of these ranges, added with fold equity and any extra money in the pot. Not too many times it's -EV to make a move with it at this stage, except coming in with it after 3 raises and an allin, that may be a time to fold it.
     
  16. zapper1000 zapper1000 is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 1:31pm) in reply to PocketPJW

    would you call there with QQ or JJ? statistically, they are the same percentage to win against AK that TT is.
  17. lwrunner103 lwrunner103 is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 1:35pm) in reply to PocketPJW

    I disagree, unless you have some sort of crazy read, calling off 75% of your stack with 10 10, is pretty donkish. But I'm a donk myself, so what do i know :)
    ---------------------------------------
    ughh yep maybe you need to reevaluate whether his play is bad or not. This shouldn't even be questioned because your play and his play are soooooooooo standard.
  18. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 1:40pm) in reply to zapper1000

    thats not really a sound argument
     12
  19. timex timex is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 1:43pm) in reply to mattg1983

    If people were sure that their arguments were sound, we wouldn't have threads like these.
     11
  20. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 1:44pm) in reply to mattg1983

    How many times are you going to nail the exact 2 that your opp has though? QQ or JJ play a lot better against a lot of hands, so that doesnt make much sensse.
  21. jhendricks09 jhendricks09 is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 1:46pm) in reply to PocketPJW

    Heres a thought donkey donk, why not wait till you actually have AA KK QQ or JJ until you reraise all in?
  22. pageh656 pageh656 is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 1:50pm) in reply to jhendricks09

    Because if you wait for that every time, by then you'll have half a big blind and doubling up won't matter much.
     
  23. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:01pm) in reply to jhendricks09

    the brilliance keeps pouring into this thread thanks for the contribution hendricks
     12
  24. ratsauce89 ratsauce89 is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:08pm) in reply to mattg1983

    mattg is it hard to be such an asshole?
    341 
  25. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:11pm) in reply to ratsauce89

    lets read that sequence again and reevaluate who was the asshole
     12
  26. Sluggle Sluggle is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:50pm) in reply to PocketPJW

    Neither is a fold unless one of the players is phenomenally tight...if you smooth call with AK you should pretty much face death by firing squad.

    lol-ing at mattg's comments "brillance keeps pouring into this thread"
  27. niptuck niptuck is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:06pm) in reply to Sluggle

    Matt why don't you give him your take on his question instead of being rude to people who are trying to help?
  28. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:13pm) in reply to niptuck

    push all day hands play themselves with those stacks the OP knows this and is just pissed he lost the race thats why i didnt answer the strategy part
     12
  29. degenrat degenrat is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:52pm) in reply to PocketPJW

    i am alwasy all in with ak baby. regardless of stack sizes table presence, anything. AK is the nuts.
  30. Faaantastic Faaantastic is offline

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 4:04pm) in reply to degenrat

    I'm pretty sure Mattg has been right with everything he posted in this thread.
    Those 2 guys that said flat call, or wait til u have QQ+ before you get all in were giving bad advice, and not helping at all.
    Also, like he said, this is soooooooo standard, its like the most common play in the poker ever pushing AI with AK to a MP raise late in a tournament. Not sure what the OP wants here other than to vent he lost the race. I like venting as much as anyone, but come on. This hand was played textbook by both parties.
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