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What's causing me to "almost" cash so often, I'd rather bust early than get close.

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  1. at_a_2d at_a_2d is offline

    Hayden, ID
    United States

    Posts: 66
    Joined: Sep 05

    Feb 16th, 2006 (2/16/2006 11:08am)

    I repeatedly find myself 1 or 2 spots off the money. Yesretday on stars $11SNG /18plyrs i finished 4th and 5th( 1-4 paid), the last two 180 man $20 SNG, I place 24th and 20th( 1-18 paid). Any ideas why I can't seem to break through into the money?
  2. Cabo Cabo is offline

    Cumming, GA
    United States

    Posts: 2,027
    Joined: Feb 05

    Feb 16th, 2006 (2/16/2006 11:13am) in reply to at_a_2d

    You are probably playing too tight so you are not adequately stacked come crunch time, also, you may not be able to pull the trigger (too tight and/or underchipped) when you need to steal blinds. You have to gamble-it-up a little more before it's too late. For practice play some cheap Single Turbos on UB or stars. gl
  3. R P L R P L is offline

    Biloxi, MS
    United States

    Posts: 97
    Joined: Feb 06

    Feb 16th, 2006 (2/16/2006 11:22am) in reply to at_a_2d

    The best thing for you to do is to look through the hand histories for those events in question, then do some analysis. Some things to look for:

    Obviously, the last hand. Did you get your chips in with the best of it? Did you make a bad call? Did you get blinded off? Get caught stealing?

    What were your chip stack sizes at the bubble? Did you have enough to mix it up, or were you just waiting for a monster that never came?

    How did you play at critical moments? THe table got shorthanded during several points of those tourneys - did you adjust your play?

    And one thing that it took me a while to learn - you will HAVE to make a big fold in a tournament. I guarantee you that in each of those tourneys, you called away a lot if not of your chips in a hand that you could have gotten away from. Find those hands. Its a very tough thing to do.

    That being said, check out the strategy archives on this site for MTT and SNG table strategy, then check out Harrington on Hold'em 1 and 2. Great books.

    Randy
  4. Maits10 Maits10 is offline

    Scottsdale, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 1,383
    Joined: Sep 05

    Feb 16th, 2006 (2/16/2006 11:31am) in reply to at_a_2d

    You're most likely playing too timid around the bubble, and more than likely a little before that point as well. My guess would be you don't have enough chips when you make a play to cause anyone to fold a decent hand, and this is the result of lack of aggression before you get to that point. Once the blinds and antes are worth stealing, you NEED to make plays to win pots, you need to steal the blinds and antes, this is how you build a chip stack to survive a beat or two towards the end. Always be observing your table, and find the other middle stacks that are looking to hang on and pick on them, they will not want to get in a confrontation without a huge hand.

    Also, you probably are not in push/fold mode soon enough, which I would advise buying Harrington's books for more info on how to execute this strategy correctly. Once you are around 10BB's, you need to look to push all in to pick up the pot and/or double up; waiting until you have 4BB's for AA does you no good if you only double back up to 8BB's, you are still hurting for chips.

    Aggression on and before the bubble will lead you to bust sometimes, yes, but is busting in 35th when top 20 pay any worse than busting in 22nd? The times where you build a chip stack and are now able to make a run at the final table will more than make up for those times where you at least gave yourself a chance to build a stack.

    Don't be afraid to bust out by giving yourself a chance to win, if you are afraid to make that play, move down a level (buy-in) and teach yourself to be aggressive towards the bubble. Your ITM (in the money) ratio will be slightly lower as you will bust earlier more, but your ROI (return on investment) should be much higher because of the times you built a stack to bring to the final table.

    Good luck!!!

    Edit: <span>NEVER CALL</span> for all of your chips without a <span>HUGE</span> hand, always be the one betting or pushing all in. This gives you two ways to win the hand, having everyone fold, or getting called and having your hand hold up at showdown. If you are calling all ins towards the end with KQ, AJ, A10, etc., this could also be a big mistake for you.
  5. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 23,112
    Joined: Jan 06

    Feb 16th, 2006 (2/16/2006 11:32am) in reply to R P L

    I think the big fold is key in making final tables. If you were playing very tight, you probably didn't have enough chips to take a big hit, try playing looser next time. Loose players lose a lot of pots but their big hands get paid off. Also the best way to miss the money is to tighten up at the bubble. You should try to be the one initiating the action at the bubble.
  6. Azone Azone is offline

    Paradise Valley, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 939
    Joined: Apr 05

    Feb 16th, 2006 (2/16/2006 11:41am) in reply to R P L

    That's the way the ball bounces. Maybe you need to tweak your game, but it may also be that ifa few hands went your wayyou may be talking about a victory yesterday.

    People sometimes have bad runs for quite a long time. Check out the stats of some of the top players online, and you will not believe how many times they have the have played. Then you are playing someone on Poker stars and you look up a players stats and you cannot believe how few times they played yet how profitable they are! 30k invested into MTT's and 63K profit. Some of that is skill and also part of it is how the ball bounces! One player may just have had an outstanding Sunday, while another player has finshed top 3 in smaller tourneys on a consistent basis.

    Some of it is skills, some is did you have a good or bad run. I was ITM 18% of the time on Poker Stars last year, averaged finishing about 35th out of every 100. FT around 8%, but lost money b/c I only was final 3 about 1,2% of the time.

    Bad play on FT or just bad run of cards when I played. Maybe both! If I had AQ I lost to JJ, if I had JJ I lost to AQ. When I had QQ I lost to AA.

    Just keep analyzing your play, keep improving, and have the year I had last year, except get to the final 3 3.4% of the time! Sometimes its just a few good bounces that can make all the difference-never more so when you are playing as competitively as you seem to be!
  7. NuclearSteve NuclearSteve is offline

    Sterling, VA
    United States

    Posts: 1,006
    Joined: Aug 05

    Feb 16th, 2006 (2/16/2006 11:45am) in reply to at_a_2d

    I agree with RPL... i've been playing a ton of the 180 man SNGs. When you play 150 to 300 hands like you usually do in these things, crazy shit is going to happen. Last night, in one of the 180s, I lost a ton of chips and eventually went out 30th because I had a dominated full house. You got to be able to lay stuff down like this....

    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Orioles_Rule [Kd 9d]
    Eegah: folds
    Donnie Chan: folds
    mattlock: folds
    lucy1166: folds
    the.oz33: folds
    DJ1022: calls 400
    Doughboys777: folds
    normm1818: folds
    Orioles_Rule: checks
    *** FLOP *** [Qc 5d Qs]
    Orioles_Rule: checks
    DJ1022: checks
    *** TURN *** [Qc 5d Qs] [9h]
    Orioles_Rule: bets 400
    DJ1022: raises 800 to 1200
    Orioles_Rule: calls 800
    *** RIVER *** [Qc 5d Qs 9h] [9c]
    Orioles_Rule: bets 1600
    DJ1022: calls 1600
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Orioles_Rule: shows [Kd 9d] (a full house, Nines full of Queens)
    DJ1022: shows [Qd As] (a full house, Queens full of Nines)
    DJ1022 collected 6825 from pot

    That last 1600 I bet on the river didn't make sense. Based on the turn action I should've known he had the Queen. Also, as a side note, what a dumbass. He had the nut full-house and didn't put me all-in. ;)

    The hand that eventually took me out was my A/Q suited losing to a pair of Qs. I do believe you can play tight and get to the final tables in these things because I've done it, you just have to make great laydowns. I always tell myself to really watch out when you get down to the last 10% of the field in any tournament. For most players, there are usually good reasons why they've made it that far... you really have to respect raises and make good laydowns. Sometimes hands like A/Q shouldn't be played.
  8. at_a_2d at_a_2d is offline

    Hayden, ID
    United States

    Posts: 66
    Joined: Sep 05

    Feb 16th, 2006 (2/16/2006 1:05pm) in reply to at_a_2d

    A heartfelt thanks to those who responded to my thread. I really appreciate your advice and I'm sure my game will improve doing as you suggest. Adam, Cal, and Riley, you truly have a good site that I find useful for improving at poker.
    Thread Starter
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