if 4x is his norm then ship...

however if this guy normally didn't 4x I might fold

<------ folding

If you have a play 100% of time in this situation, ur doing it wrong....
But, in this paticular situation it appears that he's trying to abuse the FT bubble and he's the big stack opening 4x+BB in 20% of the last 15 hands.
I'm shipping AJ here and liking it.

 

Originally Posted by boneman27

If you have a play 100% of time in this situation, ur doing it wrong....
But, in this paticular situation it appears that he's trying to abuse the FT bubble and he's the big stack opening 4x+BB in 20% of the last 15 hands.
I'm shipping AJ here and liking it.

good point about me saying 100% of the time. poor choice of words, i guess i meant 100% of THIS particular situation. I didnt even consider folding, in my mind it was a 100% jam no questions asked. I got talkin with a friend of mine who had a different opinion and thought i'd post here to find out what others thought. results don't matter, I am just curious how you all might play this.

what I did think was, I can't flat this with AJ out of position because obv I will miss and then what. if i decide to make a standard 3 bet and he jams i can't fold - so i elected to jam myself.

and LOL @ the stall responses... ty (i think) lol

 

Originally Posted by Berry-um

I gotta go with fold. You are way to deep to risk tourney life so close to FT with A freakin J. Such lag tards in that tourney tho. tough 1. str8 out 4x to me is strong. wait for better spot.

Play to win and don�t think about risking your tourney life... It�s the chipleader who 4xed his opens before, it�s the final table bubble so he should have a huge range of hands.Against most of this range your def ahead.. He had 23 or sth bb so its not that deep, esp 5 handed...
You also have a fold equity(don�t know how the cl called down or not) and if he calls you still have the best hand a few times...
I like this spot, although i�m a nit..

 

Originally Posted by boneman27

If you have a play 100% of time in this situation, ur doing it wrong....
But, in this paticular situation it appears that he's trying to abuse the FT bubble and he's the big stack opening 4x+BB in 20% of the last 15 hands.
I'm shipping AJ here and liking it.

I'm shipping even though i know he's never folding and we're probably 60/40 or something like that.

 

Originally Posted by PhenomJeff

fold.

if he 3x opens i ship, 4x i fold

this has come up a couple times ITT now. it is interesting to me and makes me think i should be opening my late pos steals as 4x since so many of you seem to want to fold decent hands to 4x's.... ponderous.

thanks for the replies so far guys - this is interesting to me. it seems pretty split between shove and fold whereas I think this is a clear shove. I'd love some more responses and maybe I'll even post up the results (though they are meaningless for the purpose of the quesiton I posed).

I'm beating him into the pot.

 

Originally Posted by PhenomJeff

Sup Mook...

the difference is if i view the guy to be good or not...my view of this hand is this: going with the read that once this guy puts in 32k (4x) he's not folding to your reship ever...

so now i analyze if AJ is good vs his range, which it prob is if he's been active...but again IMO, I know he is calling me (the idea that he's pot committed is my view of what this player is thinking)

i agree in this case given his stack and open size I figured he would be calling me but my whole game revolves on getting it in good. If I think I'm ahead I want my $ in the pot.

 

Originally Posted by PhenomJeff

you're obviously better than a majority of the players left in the tourney, so
since i know hes calling me, i lean to folding with info provided

ahhhh this is where you are wrong, but ty for the compliment. ;) i pretty much suck so i'm more than happy to get it in a spot like this if i think i have the best of it. I needed some chips to ship that bitch.

in any event, i did donk shove, he did snap call with 1010 and the best hand held up. so bad read me, i thought AJ was well the best hand and it turns out it was a race situation. if an ace or a jack comes i never make this thread obv but i am really surprised at the amount of peeps who wouldn't jam.

food for thought... new song soon "stand by your jam" - lol - here's the full hh

Stage #76946612 Tourney ID 5122484 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 8,000 - 2010-03-03 22:40:36 (ET)
Table: 17 (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer
Seat 2 - JETS4LIFEE (270,992 in chips)
Seat 4 - DAVIDPERKINS (256,283 in chips)
Seat 5 - MOOKNAM (191,281 in chips)
Seat 8 - HUNEDOREANU (253,864 in chips)
Seat 9 - NOTESCORE (827,196 in chips)
JETS4LIFEE - Ante 800
DAVIDPERKINS - Ante 800
MOOKNAM - Ante 800
HUNEDOREANU - Ante 800
NOTESCORE - Ante 800
MOOKNAM - Posts small blind 4,000
HUNEDOREANU - Posts big blind 8,000
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to MOOKNAM [Jc As]
NOTESCORE - Raises 32,000 to 32,000
JETS4LIFEE - Folds
DAVIDPERKINS - Folds
MOOKNAM - All-In(Raise) 186,481 to 190,481
HUNEDOREANU - Folds
NOTESCORE - Calls 158,481
*** FLOP *** [5c 2c Qd]
*** TURN *** [5c 2c Qd] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [5c 2c Qd 2s] [Qs]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MOOKNAM - Shows [Jc As] (Two Pair, queens and twos)
NOTESCORE - Shows [10s 10c] (Two Pair, queens and tens)
NOTESCORE Collects 392,962 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot(392,962)
Board [5c 2c Qd 2s Qs]
Seat 2: JETS4LIFEE Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: DAVIDPERKINS (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: MOOKNAM (small blind) HI:lost with Two Pair, queens and twos [Jc As - B:Qs,B:Qd,B:2s,B:2c,P:As]
Seat 8: HUNEDOREANU (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 9: NOTESCORE won Total (392,962) HI:(392,962) with Two Pair, queens and tens [10s 10c - B:Qs,B:Qd,P:10s,P:10c,B:5c]

I agree...I found that the 4x is generally a donkey with weak holdings. Although I've seen it where they have a HUGE hand. But way more often enough on the weaker side. I ship and hope he folds.

I'd probably fold in this spot, but can't fault a shove either gg.

AJ is a premium hand 5 handed against the CL on the FT bubble. This is def a shove.