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Posts: 53
Joined: Feb 09Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 3:50pm)
Ive been wondering this for a while, and maybe i'm missing something, but why is a flush ranked higher than a straight? If after the flop you have 4 cards to a flush, there are 9 cards remaining to complete your flush. If you hold 45 for example, and the flop is A67, you only have 8 outs to hit a straight, and that's with an open ended straight draw, you'd only have 4 outs with a gutshot. Since you have 9 outs to hit a flush, and 8 to hit a straight, shouldn't a flush be considered a weaker holding? The only explination I can think of is that we can assume at full ring, someone else likely has one of our flush cards, but shouldn't we assume the same about the straight cards? What am I missing? why is a flush ranked higher?
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Posts: 5,260
Joined: Feb 07Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 3:53pm) in reply to Dirtyjb30236
More combo's of the two cards on the flop that give you the opened straight draw
IE: If you have 65ss
There are more combo's of cards that will put a 78 on the flop than the liklihood of two spades flopping. -
Posts: 53
Joined: Feb 09Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 3:57pm) in reply to elusively
Thanks that definitly makes sense.Originally Posted by elusively
More combo's of the two cards on the flop that give you the opened straight draw
IE: If you have 65ss
There are more combo's of cards that will put a 78 on the flop than the liklihood of two spades flopping. -
Poker Winning Hand Odds in 5 card Games -
There are many poker variants, but unless otherwise specified in the rules of the variant being played, hands are evaluated using the traditional set of five-card hands. These are, from worst to best:- <LI>No pair (for example, A-Q-10-5-2) <LI>One pair (for example, 10-10-K-7-4) <LI>Two pair (for example, K-K-9-9-J) <LI>Three of a kind (for example, 4-4-4-K-9) <LI>Straight (for example, 9-8-7-6-5) <LI>Flush (for example, K-J-8-7-4 of one suit) <LI>Full house (for example, 2-2-2-Q-Q) <LI>Four of a kind (for example, J-J-J-J-6) <LI>Straight flush (for example, Q-J-10-9-8 of one suit) <LI>Royal straight flush (only A-K-Q-J-10 of a single suit; not technically a separate hand, but sans wild cards the highest possible in poker [also called simply a royal flush]) <LI>Five of a kind (for example, 6-6-6-6-(Wild), only possible in Wild card game. Poker games may contain one or more cards designated as wild . These may be jokers, or they may be normal ranked and suited cards pressed into wild card duty ("deuces wild" is a common variant).</LI>
The odds chart below says it all, pretty much.
The probability distribution of the various hands for a 5-card game without wild cards and playing Ace high only is as follows:
<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TH>Hand</TH><TH>Probability</TH><TH colSpan=2>Distribution</TH></TR><TR><TD>No pair</TD><TD align=right>1,303,560 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>50</TD><TD>.16%</TD></TR><TR><TD>One pair</TD><TD align=right>1,098,240 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>42</TD><TD>.26%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Two pair</TD><TD align=right>123,552 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD>.75%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Three of a kind</TD><TD align=right>54,912 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD>.11%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Straight</TD><TD align=right>9,180 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD>.353%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Flush</TD><TD align=right>5,112 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD>.197%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Full house</TD><TD align=right>3,744 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD>.144%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Four of a kind</TD><TD align=right>624 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD>.0240%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Straight flush (excluding Royal flush)</TD><TD align=right>32 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD>.00123%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Royal straight flush</TD><TD align=right>4 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD>.000154%</TD></TR><TR><TD>TOTAL</TD><TD align=right>2,598,960 in 2,598,960</TD><TD align=right>100</TD><TD>.00%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> -
Although this may be true, the reason doesn't have anything to do with flops, pocket cards, etc. It has solely to do with which is more likely in a five card hand: a straight or a flush. These hand rankings were developed long before Texas Holdem existed.
Originally Posted by elusively
More combo's of the two cards on the flop that give you the opened straight draw
IE: If you have 65ss
There are more combo's of cards that will put a 78 on the flop than the liklihood of two spades flopping. -
Posts: 967
Joined: Dec 08Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 4:16pm) in reply to Adam
There are 13 cards in the deck that can make a flush
A stright (ex. 45678) can be created by a combination of 20 cards in the deck. -
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Posts: 711
Joined: Oct 07Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 4:32pm) in reply to Dirtyjb30236
Yeah the problem with this is that you're only thinking about Texas Hold Em. You need to think about poker in general and all of it's games. Hold Em is just one of many variants, and they all go by the same hand rankings which is the probability that any 5 random cards will fall a certain way. If we laid out 5 cards over a million times, straights would come out more often than flushes which is why they are ranked lower.
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Posts: 1,608
Joined: Apr 07Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 4:35pm) in reply to Shrubbery
Originally Posted by AwesomeO
cuz flushes are cooler, ldo
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Posts: 1,573
Joined: Feb 07Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 4:58pm) in reply to Nothingmaker
Whatever. Frushes hit 100% of the time. Every single fucking time. Sooted tards always win.
Here, I'll fix that stupid probability table to reflect the true odds of frushes vs straights and everything else on pokerstars:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=458 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP> <COL width=223> <COL width=141> <COL width=28> <COL width=66> <TBODY><TR height=17><TD class=xl22 width=223 height=17>Hand</TD><TD class=xl22 width=141>Probability</TD><TD class=xl22 width=94 colSpan=2>Distribution</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Flush</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>2,598,960 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>100</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1">100.00%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>One pair</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>1,098,240 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>42</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="2.5999999999999999E-3">0.26%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Two pair</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>123,552 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>4</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="7.4999999999999997E-3">0.75%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Three of a kind</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>54,912 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>2</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1.1000000000000001E-3">0.11%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Straight</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>9,180 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="3.5300000000000002E-3">0.35%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Full house</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>3,744 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1.4400000000000001E-3">0.14%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Four of a kind</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>624 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="2.4000000000000001E-4">0.02%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Straight flush (excluding Royal flush)</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>32 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1.2300000000000001E-5">0.00%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Royal straight flush</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>4 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1.5400000000000001E-6">0.00%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> -
zander
anomaly in his crotch
Posts: 6,036
Joined: Dec 06Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 5:05pm) in reply to slapshot
Two pair on the internets should beat a flush given how often they hit.
That said, I've never understood why these silly charts and hand rankings have a separate category for a Royal Flush? It's just a straight flush that outranks all the others? Why aren't there separate individual categories for each pair within the ranks of one pair, etc?... -
Because a royal flush is a specific straight flush. There are only 4 ways to make a royal flush, there are many more ways of making a lower straight flush.
Originally Posted by zander
Two pair on the internets should beat a flush given how often they hit.
That said, I've never understood why these silly charts and hand rankings have a separate category for a Royal Flush? It's just a straight flush that outranks all the others? Why aren't there separate individual categories for each pair within the ranks of one pair, etc?... -
zander
anomaly in his crotch
Posts: 6,036
Joined: Dec 06Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 5:18pm) in reply to Rev.K
But one pair of aces is one specific pair, and there are many lower pairs. A royal beating a 9-k straight flush is just as evident as a pair of aces beating a pair of kings... I fail to see why the distinction is necessary.Originally Posted by Rev.K
Because a royal flush is a specific straight flush. There are only 4 ways to make a royal flush, there are many more ways of making a lower straight flush.Originally Posted by zander
Two pair on the internets should beat a flush given how often they hit.
That said, I've never understood why these silly charts and hand rankings have a separate category for a Royal Flush? It's just a straight flush that outranks all the others? Why aren't there separate individual categories for each pair within the ranks of one pair, etc?... -
Posts: 1,003
Joined: Jun 07Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 5:39pm) in reply to zander
2 pair is just one more pair than 1 pair. Why do we need a distinction? A straight is just 5 cards in order. Why does it beat a pair? A set is just a pocket pair with one more on the board. Why do we need a distinction? If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Why do we need a distinction?Originally Posted by zander
But one pair of aces is one specific pair, and there are many lower pairs. A royal beating a 9-k straight flush is just as evident as a pair of aces beating a pair of kings... I fail to see why the distinction is necessary. -
zander
anomaly in his crotch
Posts: 6,036
Joined: Dec 06Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 5:46pm) in reply to Limo Wreck
Two pair is not one pair. A Royal Flush Is a straight flush. Limo Wreck is a troll. Is that simple enough to understand?Originally Posted by Limo Wreck
2 pair is just one more pair than 1 pair. Why do we need a distinction? A straight is just 5 cards in order. Why does it beat a pair? A set is just a pocket pair with one more on the board. Why do we need a distinction? If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Why do we need a distinction?Originally Posted by zander
But one pair of aces is one specific pair, and there are many lower pairs. A royal beating a 9-k straight flush is just as evident as a pair of aces beating a pair of kings... I fail to see why the distinction is necessary. -
Posts: 1,003
Joined: Jun 07Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 6:00pm) in reply to zander
Ok maybe I can frame this in a way that your stubbornly obtuse mind can understand. A Royal Flush is the best possible hand in poker, and it just happens to be a point of interest with people, what the odds are of getting the best possible hand. It is distinctly different from any other poker hand in that regard.Originally Posted by zander
Two pair is not one pair. A Royal Flush Is a straight flush. Limo Wreck is a troll. Is that simple enough to understand?Originally Posted by Limo Wreck
2 pair is just one more pair than 1 pair. Why do we need a distinction? A straight is just 5 cards in order. Why does it beat a pair? A set is just a pocket pair with one more on the board. Why do we need a distinction? If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Why do we need a distinction?Originally Posted by zander
But one pair of aces is one specific pair, and there are many lower pairs. A royal beating a 9-k straight flush is just as evident as a pair of aces beating a pair of kings... I fail to see why the distinction is necessary. -
zander
anomaly in his crotch
Posts: 6,036
Joined: Dec 06Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 6:10pm) in reply to Limo Wreck
At least you tried to answer the question the second time instead of just being a contrarian dbag... so thanks, I guess. I guess that's the only possible answer that isn't simply retarded.Originally Posted by Limo Wreck
Ok maybe I can frame this in a way that your stubbornly obtuse mind can understand. A Royal Flush is the best possible hand in poker, and it just happens to be a point of interest with people, what the odds are of getting the best possible hand. It is distinctly different from any other poker hand in that regard.Originally Posted by zander
Two pair is not one pair. A Royal Flush Is a straight flush. Limo Wreck is a troll. Is that simple enough to understand?Originally Posted by Limo Wreck
2 pair is just one more pair than 1 pair. Why do we need a distinction? A straight is just 5 cards in order. Why does it beat a pair? A set is just a pocket pair with one more on the board. Why do we need a distinction? If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Why do we need a distinction?Originally Posted by zander
But one pair of aces is one specific pair, and there are many lower pairs. A royal beating a 9-k straight flush is just as evident as a pair of aces beating a pair of kings... I fail to see why the distinction is necessary.
But more importantly, I was looking at your profile to see who the f you were... You can get rankings points for zero dollar cashes on carbon? What the hell is that? -
Posts: 21,619
Joined: Nov 06Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 6:13pm) in reply to slapshot
lolz, I like it...Originally Posted by slapshot
Whatever. Frushes hit 100% of the time. Every single fucking time. Sooted tards always win.
Here, I'll fix that stupid probability table to reflect the true odds of frushes vs straights and everything else on pokerstars:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=458 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP> <COL width=223> <COL width=141> <COL width=28> <COL width=66> <TBODY><TR height=17><TD class=xl22 width=223 height=17>Hand</TD><TD class=xl22 width=141>Probability</TD><TD class=xl22 width=94 colSpan=2>Distribution</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Flush</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>2,598,960 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>100</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1">100.00%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>One pair</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>1,098,240 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>42</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="2.5999999999999999E-3">0.26%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Two pair</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>123,552 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>4</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="7.4999999999999997E-3">0.75%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Three of a kind</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>54,912 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>2</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1.1000000000000001E-3">0.11%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Straight</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>9,180 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="3.5300000000000002E-3">0.35%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Full house</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>3,744 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1.4400000000000001E-3">0.14%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Four of a kind</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>624 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="2.4000000000000001E-4">0.02%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Straight flush (excluding Royal flush)</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>32 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1.2300000000000001E-5">0.00%</TD></TR><TR height=17><TD class=xl23 width=223 height=17>Royal straight flush</TD><TD class=xl24 width=141>4 in 2,598,960</TD><TD class=xl24 width=28 x:num>0</TD><TD class=xl25 align=right width=66 x:num="1.5400000000000001E-6">0.00%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> -
thanks, I have a couple really cool designs that I switch between. PM me if you wanna see any of em to try out for yourself.
Originally Posted by AwesomeO
I like your background
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Posts: 1,230
Joined: Oct 06Apr 22nd, 2009 (4/22/2009 8:18pm) in reply to wandigo
So, wtf did you do?!?!?!? Check to trap? Bet small? Bet big? Did ya get action? Or lose to runner-runner 5-of-a-kind? Cmon, man, don't leave us hanging like that!!!!
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Posts: 1,102
Joined: Oct 06Apr 25th, 2009 (4/25/2009 1:43am) in reply to Dirtyjb30236
omg, i just hit a royal straight! :-)
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Posts: 24,818
Joined: Jul 06Apr 25th, 2009 (4/25/2009 2:30am) in reply to Dirtyjb30236
In 3-card poker, a straight beats a flush.
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Posts: 205
Joined: Dec 08Apr 25th, 2009 (4/25/2009 6:49am) in reply to wandigo
obv brag about super user background that only BkIce Horses have access to
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every straight ever made had a 5 or a 10 in it (fact)
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Posts: 521
Joined: Apr 08Apr 25th, 2009 (4/25/2009 8:16am) in reply to scottyclark
lol, geniusOriginally Posted by scottyclark
every straight ever made had a 5 or a 10 in it (fact)
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weavel | 2nd 7,408 |
13th 28 |
|
5 |
mtstackin88 | 4th 7,034 |
10th 23 |
| Country | Top 20 PLB |
P5s Members |
Prev Rank |
||
| 1 |  Canada |
103770 | 1924 | 1st | |
| 2 |  United Kingdom |
102421 | 1855 | 2nd | |
| 3 |  Costa Rica |
89458 | 123 | 4th | |
| 4 |  Australia |
88336 | 994 | 3rd | |
| 5 |  Mexico |
87509 | 184 | 5th |
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