Lol you have JJ here like 99% of the time.

Edit: With your notes, call.

Yes, JJ would make lots of sense for me in this spot, and to be frank I probably would have called quickly with JJ as I also have the straight-draw in case villain has two pair or the queen.

However, I did not have JJ there.

I was trying to consider everything:
Villain's image, the flop action and his overshove on turn.

pokerstars Game #15239747289: Tournament #77004560, $210+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/02/12 - 15:32:58 (ET)
Table '77004560 12' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: muchakja (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: akat11 (1520 in chips)
Seat 4: mendieta19 (1470 in chips)
Seat 5: Devil42 (1470 in chips)
Seat 6: iwearsandals (1480 in chips)
Seat 7: Fjusse (1530 in chips)
Seat 8: lud69 (1530 in chips)
Seat 9: DANA1337 (1500 in chips)
iwearsandals: posts small blind 10
Fjusse: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Devil42 [8s 8c]
lud69: raises 80 to 100
DANA1337: folds
muchakja: folds
akat11: folds
mendieta19: folds
Devil42: calls 100
iwearsandals: folds
co3730 is connected
Fjusse: folds
*** FLOP *** [9d 2h Td]
lud69: bets 100
Devil42: raises 200 to 300
lud69: calls 200
*** TURN *** [9d 2h Td] [Qs]
lud69: bets 1130 and is all-in
Devil42: calls 1070 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [9d 2h Td Qs] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
lud69: shows [As Kd] (high card Ace)
Devil42: shows [8s 8c] (a pair of Eights)
Devil42 collected 2970 from pot

Obviously this was a play that I made totally read-dependent.
I tanked into 1/3 of my time bank but in the end was pretty sure that I held the best hand.

Your comments on my play?

If I get some good comments then I will also explain my full thought process.

the thing is this is a turbo so if he gets chips early he's going to have a great shot at getting a seat

MTT or SNG your whole thought process is backwards here. Putting in 1/15 your stack pre w/ a middle pair is retarded since your basically guessing on any flop that doesnt have an 8. On the flop, yeah hes nuts, but that could easily mean he has one of the 2 overs on the board or how about an overpair (yes, donks get hands too). Then, to make things worse, you RAISE on the flop, basically turning your hand into a bluff. Yes, the other guy played way worse then you but you played this hand attrociously yourself.

And Ron, what you said tells me you know very little about sng play. Doubling up early is nice, but anybody who knows sng's knows the key to winning a SNG is proper bubble/endgame strategy and not how you play hands early (TIGHT IS RIGHT!).

agree with mkind.....terrible whole way through....great result though

This is among the worst brag posts I have ever seen. Nh, gc, etc.

super bad preflop, especially in a SnG.

Don't understand the "this is a sng tho" argument.

This pre-flop call is worse in a SNG than it would be in a MTT

Ok well i think the flop play was not to good, because if he has insane as you say u should probably play a small pot with him with a hand this weak. Also AK is the only hand he could have ehre that u actually beat, even given his image. But to those who say the preflop call was awful I have a few questgions. Ussually you are only getting the odds to play 88 for set value here against a 5x raise unless you know the villain has an extremely strong hand, which you dont. But if you know the player is willing to stack off extremely light no matter what his hand is, cant you call for set odds alone? you are putting a fifteen of your stack in against a plyer who clearly is willing to put all his chips in the middle a hi percentage of the time given his image and his play here. It seems to me the call preflop is fine though i could be wrong.

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Cliff notes:
</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>I made a sick call based on reads on super-aggressive villain, his actions were not adding up at all.
Got flamed for my call in the forum (not in the original tournament though).
Therefore I detail my thought process.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>To make some things clear:
First of all this was not a SNG but it was a MTT satellite. Many people got this wrong.
Second, this is definitely not a brag post. The main question is: Do you also makes certain plays based on reads and pretty much regardless of the hand, or do you never make such plays at all?</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Here's my thought process why I decided to call in this spot despite facing such a big bet and holding such a weak hand:</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Pre-game reads:
</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>Already prior to the game I had a very good read on villain. Not only did I have notes on him, but I even remember playing with him. He is the hyper-aggressive type of player. Not dumb, but "going big or going home" at its best. On the one hand he is not a stupid maniac, but on the other he is aggressively trying to win any pot he's seriously involved in as long as he sees a chance to do so and does not mind putting all his chips in the middle.
I have seen him doing this repeatedly.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Without this specific read my actions would not make any sense on any street.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>The situation:
</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>We are very early in the $210+15 satellite to the Super Tuesday, with about 80 players and every fifth gets a $1050 seat.
Blind structure is fairly fast with 10mins levels.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>pokerstars Game #15239747289: Tournament #77004560, $210+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/02/12 - 15:32:58 (ET)</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>
<SPAN>Table '77004560 12' 9-max Seat #5 is the button</SPAN>
<SPAN>Seat 1: muchakja (1500 in chips) </SPAN>
<SPAN>Seat 3: akat11 (1520 in chips) </SPAN>
<SPAN>Seat 4: mendieta19 (1470 in chips) </SPAN>
<SPAN>Seat 5: Devil42 (1470 in chips) </SPAN>
<SPAN>Seat 6: iwearsandals (1480 in chips) </SPAN>
<SPAN>Seat 7: Fjusse (1530 in chips) </SPAN>
<SPAN>Seat 8: lud69 (1530 in chips) </SPAN>
<SPAN>Seat 9: DANA1337 (1500 in chips) </SPAN>
<SPAN>iwearsandals: posts small blind 10</SPAN>
<SPAN>Fjusse: posts big blind 20</SPAN>
<SPAN>*** HOLE CARDS ***</SPAN>
<SPAN>Dealt to Devil42 [8s 8c]</SPAN>
<SPAN>lud69: raises 80 to 100</SPAN></SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Villain just has raised the prior hand from UTG+1, and the very next hand he is putting in a 5x raise from UTG. Even though he is a LAG player, putting in another raise from EP back to back makes me think he has a real hand.
So I would put him on a medium to high pair or two high cards (AJ-AK, KQ). Other holdings are not impossible but rather unlikely, as I've also seen him limping a lot.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>DANA1337: folds </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>
<SPAN>muchakja: folds </SPAN>
<SPAN>akat11: folds </SPAN>
<SPAN>mendieta19: folds </SPAN>
<SPAN>Devil42: calls 100</SPAN></SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>I decide to call because I have position which is crucial in playing vs super-aggressive players and with only two players left it's unlikely that a player behind me will go over the top.
If I hit a set I have excellent chances to double up early, but even if not, then I still have chances to stack villain because I have seen him bluffing off his whole stack at more than one occasion.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>iwearsandals: folds </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>
<SPAN>co3730 is connected </SPAN>
<SPAN>Fjusse: folds </SPAN>
<SPAN>*** FLOP *** [9d 2h Td]</SPAN>
<SPAN>lud69: bets 100</SPAN></SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Well, obv not the best flop for me, but based on my read also not the worst. Because if villain has two high cards he definitely will have missed, and according to my read he will have difficulties to let go of the hand even though he has hit nothing.
His bet is suspicious because he bets less than half the pot on a fairly draw-heavy board.</SPAN>

<SPAN>Devil42: raises 200 to 300</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>This is quite a crucial point:
Although I have pretty much nothing, I face two over-cards and there are numerous draws out there, <SPAN>I have to reraise here</SPAN>.
I reraise because his bet does not fit the board, so I reraise for information. If villain has AT (unlikely), any overpair, any flush-draw or open-ended straight draw then according to his aggressiveness (go big or go out) he definitely will move all-in here.
He also probably will reraise all-in with 99 or TT. First, I've never seen him making any trappy plays and second, the board isn't suited well for slow play.</SPAN>

<SPAN>lud69: calls 200</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Villain flat calls, which (again: due to his aggressiveness and difficulties to let go of a pot) makes me almost certain that he has two overcards.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>*** TURN *** [9d 2h Td] [Qs]</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>
<SPAN>lud69: bets 1130 and is all-in</SPAN></SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Wow, why does he bet all-in?
Well, I have to admit that despite knowing his bluffing frequency I still was concerned. But instead of folding my obviously weak hand, I went into the tank and spent nearly 1/3 of my time bank (which I hate to do early in a tournament) to think about which holdings might explain his bets:</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>JJ-AA: Likely preflop holdings, but would have reraised all-in at the flop.
22-88: Rather unlikely preflop holdings, except 22 only possible as a stone-cold bluff.
AT, QJ, JT, T9: Unlikely preflop holdings, would have reraised all-in on the flop.
KJ, J8: (very) unlikely preflop holdings, would check-raise all-in and not open shove on turn.
99, TT: Likely preflop holding, would have check-raised all-in on flop or check-raised all-in on turn.
AQ, KQ: Likely preflop holdings, but rather would bet small or check-call instead of shoving all-in. These are fairly strong hands on this board, but a shove will only get called by a better hand, so shoving it in does not really make sense.
AK: Likely preflop holding, might be shoved as a semi-bluff because of 2 overs + gutshot.
AJ: Fairly likely preflop holding, makes most sense to be open-shoved with the overcard + open-ended straight draw on turn.
QT, Q9, T9: very unlikely preflop holdings, also would have rather check-raised all-in on flop/turn instead of open shoving all-in on turn.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>In this situation I pretty much ruled out villain holding JJ-AA, 22-88, KJ, J8, QJ, JT, T9, AT, QT, Q9, T9 and any hands with two diamonds.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>So the hands which could fit this player and his actions came down to:
</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>AJ - most likely
AK - possible
AQ/KQ - less likely
TT/99 - least likely</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>He could have AQ/KQ or TT/99, but it still does not add up how villain played that hand. He probably would have reraised with TT/99 on the flop, and rather would have check-called with AQ/KQ.
By the way he played, my gut feeling told me he was trying to push me out of the pot.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>I trusted my reads, my thoughts and my gut feeling, so I called.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Devil42: calls 1070 and is all-in</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>I called despite knowing that I easily could be bet or could get outdrawn. I know this was a high risk play, but I called because:
1) I thought his play does not add up and thus probably any pair is good here.
2) We are not deep into the tourney yet. If I'm wrong then I have not lost too much but if I double up I have good chances to make a seat. I get about 1:2 on my call so I only have to have the best hand 1 in 3 times.
3) Finally I called because I thought I can trust my read on this super-aggressive player and for improving my game in future I also wanted to confirm that I'm right with my read.</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>*** RIVER *** [9d 2h Td Qs] [5c]</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>
<SPAN>*** SHOW DOWN ***</SPAN>
<SPAN>lud69: shows [As Kd] (high card Ace)</SPAN>
<SPAN>Devil42: shows [8s 8c] (a pair of Eights)</SPAN>
<SPAN>Devil42 collected 2970 from pot</SPAN></SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>I already got flamed after posting the hand results but before explaining my thought process. If dario, bax or lil would have made such a call many people would have written something like "sick call, and what a sick read. dario/bax/lil pwns".</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>To repeat the question why I posted this hand:
</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB>Do you also makes certain plays based on reads and pretty much regardless of the hand, or do you never make such plays at all?

</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>Devil42</SPAN>

<SPAN lang=EN-GB>PS: As some people asked: Later I missed the seat due to losing a coin flip AK to TT.</SPAN>

Frankly, this was probably the "sickest" call I ever made in a decent buy-in tourney, and I only made this play because I had very good reads on the villain. First from prior tournmanents, and second from the way how he played this hand.

I think you can only make such sick plays vs over-aggressive LAGs who always bet, always raise and always put pressure on you.
I have made good experiences with playing back at hyper-aggressive players. Only trying to avoid them is not going to win you a tournament. They just run over you, particularly in short-handed situations.
If they can lay down a hand then reraise, float, bluff them. If they cannot, then stack them with a made hand.
I have made both types of plays successfully against very strong, agressive players in my 10r win. Without playing back at them I would never have won it.

However it needs great experience and feel when to play back at them and when to back down (this is also a reason why I like to get opinions on this extreme hand here in the forum). Position usually helps a lot.
Finally, I have also had very good results in cash games, once you identify the strong LAGs there.

Whatever you do, rule #1 is to make sure you have a good read on the villain before ever considering doing sick stuff.

Oh, and another thing:
If you always only play TAG ABC poker and never try new things, never try to sharpen your reads, never dare to find out which moves work and which don't, then you will always only be a grinder and never get to the very top.

Where is the mistake that you think I obv just was lucky and my reads and thought process were totally off?

A little more reasoning than "this is not good" might help.

Considering your biggest listed cash is $83 - it should hurt. Post less.

You fold 88 in position getting 15:1 implied odds just to set mine? That seems awfully weak to me, especially when you know that this is a preflop raise from a very aggressive player.

Maybe I did not get my message across clearly enough, so I try it again:

Forget the maths and applying hand ranges � la villain might have 99+, AJ+, KQs etc for a moment.
I made a very read-dependent play, and I was sure that relying on my reads on villain I could exclude quite many hands from his list (see my detailed explanation above!).

At the end it pretty much came down to him holding AJ/AK or AQ/KQ (with a very slight chance of TT/99).
By the way how he open-shoved the turn, I felt that AJ/AK is much more likely and that's why I called after much deliberation.

I'm not a spewy player. I don't make many hero calls. That's my sickest call ever.