Thoughts?

Full Tilt Poker Game #26958838946: The Fifty-Fifty (206592890), Table 35 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:37:53 ET - 2011/01/03
Seat 1: TheTender31 (4,255)
Seat 2: RenRad 01 (12,397)
Seat 3: Hockeysb97 (3,870)
Seat 4: linqlinq (3,880)
Seat 5: gojuriu (13,925)
Seat 6: bensch24 (7,170)
Seat 7: sandshot1 (12,645)
Seat 8: Hello Kitty 808 (5,745)
Seat 9: TurdBurglar13 (9,535)
bensch24 posts the small blind of 100
sandshot1 posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TurdBurglar13 [Kc Ah]
Hello Kitty 808 folds
TurdBurglar13 raises to 500
TheTender31 folds
RenRad 01 folds
Hockeysb97 folds
linqlinq folds
gojuriu calls 500
bensch24 folds
sandshot1 has 15 seconds left to act
sandshot1 has timed out
sandshot1 folds
sandshot1 is sitting out
*** FLOP *** [Jh Td Jd]
TurdBurglar13 has 15 seconds left to act
TurdBurglar13 checks
gojuriu bets 800
sandshot1 has returned
TurdBurglar13 calls 800
*** TURN *** [Jh Td Jd] [Ac]
TurdBurglar13 checks
gojuriu has 15 seconds left to act
gojuriu bets 1,000
TurdBurglar13 calls 1,000
*** RIVER *** [Jh Td Jd Ac] [9h]
TurdBurglar13 checks
gojuriu bets 2,200
TurdBurglar13 has 15 seconds left to act
TurdBurglar13 calls 2,200
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gojuriu shows [Qd Jc] three of a kind, Jacks
TurdBurglar13 mucks
gojuriu wins the pot (9,300) with three of a kind, Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9,300 | Rake 0
Board: [Jh Td Jd Ac 9h]
Seat 1: TheTender31 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: RenRad 01 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Hockeysb97 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: linqlinq didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: gojuriu (button) showed [Qd Jc] and won (9,300) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 6: bensch24 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: sandshot1 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: Hello Kitty 808 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: TurdBurglar13 mucked [Kc Ah] - two pair, Aces and Jacks

 

Originally Posted by sXeffects

3betting is fun

lolwut

lol why dont u just let go ur AK? that guy destroys his pot odds if he makes those big bets out of position with a drawing hand, ure drawing to your 4 gutshot outs, and the worst thing is, if u hit ur A or K u won't ever let go anymore cause u didn't believe he has a J from the start... ure both deep, no need to get creative here, just let go and wait for better opportunities and don't bring yourself in difficult situations like this just because u will be pissed if he shows a bluff, he has u beaten most of the time here, even if he has 99 or something ure drawing to your 6 outs.. just a -EV decision u made on the flop... if the blinds were much higher u could raise his flop bet and see what happens (if he reraises u fold, and if he just calls he will probably checks the turn and u can see the river for free), but for now just fold

EDIT:

oh he has position on you? this makes my fold even easier... AK is a great hand when the blinds are very high and people loosen up their ranges and go all in with hand like AQ or worse, but AK isn't good anymore when u haven't position on your opponent and don't hit the board, especially a paired board is bad cause it most likely kills your 6 A and K outs here

true.

If u check the flop with ak u give up the hand, i think i would contibet the flop automatically and give up the hand if he calls or 3bets, problem is we don't get anything to fold.. We only beat KT on the flop and some mid suited connectors.. If u really think it over a bet on the flop is not good here cause we rarely get worse hands to call or better hands to fold, and check calling with a gutshot is horrible

This is just a typical example of overplaying AK which - as we all SHOULD KNOW by now is NOT A HAND AT ALL but rather just 2 cards - 2 very high cards - which only count if you're playing high card poker.

If you're playing AK and you miss the flop - FOLDING IS AN OPTION that is remarkably under-exercised.

Especially when the BOARD IS PAIRED and especially with BROADWAY cards.

On a paired board, you're facing one of two types of opponents who bets into the board: A shrewd thinking player or a complete lunatic.

So here, part of the fun of playing is trying to figure out what kind of player your opponent really is. As it turns out, he was shrewd - at least on this hand.

All things considered, I can understand why you wanted to play the hand through, but your better option IMO is to fold to the flop bet and wait for a better spot. Of course, that's easy for me to say, knowing the hand results, but it also is the way I have learned to play - the hard way - against a paired board. You typically will see most pros give up on paired boards also, unless they have a legit shot to bust the guy who happens to have hit trips.

What hand is he betting on the river that we beat? A naked flush draw that missed? He's not gonna 3 barrel that type of hand.

That bet sizing is such a tell in itself... welcome to Valuetown, bro. Population: You

Q is only card u can feel good about on turn...n doubt he barrels turn on a bluff with this board

 

Originally Posted by mattdb9er

meh id cbet the flop, and prolly b/f the turn , he does not have to have a J or 10 just cuz he flatted a raise pre, also it would def be read dependant

Seems like a line that sets yourself up perfectly for getting bluffed out of a pot by good, aggressive players.

Wouldn't a good player raise you on the Turn with ATC understanding the Ace likely hit you, and also understanding you know this so you will assign a very strong hand range to their raise?

I mean like you said it's read dependent... most mtt players are total droolers post-flop (and preflop lol).

def cbet

well I am never even considering c/f this flop...it is either a cbet, or a c/c...we have wayyyy too much equity and showdown value to ever just c/f. I decided to C/C bc I didnt think my cbet would get enough folds. I think I need to bet the flop and turn, and give up if i dont improve.

 

Originally Posted by Jung money

well I am never even considering c/f this flop...it is either a cbet, or a c/c...we have wayyyy too much equity and showdown value to ever just c/f. I decided to C/C bc I didnt think my cbet would get enough folds. I think I need to bet the flop and turn, and give up if i dont improve.

maybe im bad , but i agree with u about this being an easy double barrel spot for me , even if i dont turn the A, and if im played back on the turn i can easily let my hand go , if im floated on both streets and dont turn the A, on the river i can choose to 3barrel or depending on what the card it is i can also just give up, i agree people will float ur flop bet wide , but when u barrel turn again i dont know how often there floating again or callin with marginal smaller pairs, or deciding to raise the turn with air after u 2 barreld this board, u could even get value from worse that may call, AQ, KJ, etc, although i can see checking turn to , to maybe get value from worse hands on river that maybe will just fold out to a turn bet