Check out our brand new Local Poker Communities! Get updates and interact with poker players in your area.
Visit the United States Poker Community | Visit the California Poker Community | Read more about the Launch of P5s Local

Why Limit?

Reply to Thread
  1. epiLog epiLog is offline

    Umeĺ
    Sweden

    Posts: 107
    Joined: Sep 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 1:39pm)

    Topic says it all. It seems to me that alot of the big pro's mainly play limit holdem for their income and have done so for a long time. Why are they playing limit and not no-limit?
  2. Zeropants Zeropants is offline

    Heyworth, IL
    United States

    Posts: 241
    Joined: Apr 06

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 1:42pm) in reply to epiLog

    It's a more consistant game. While you can't win as much in a pot (potentially), you also aren't going to lose your buy-in on one hand. It's less stress consistantly and alot of players are just more comfortable playing it because of that.
  3. epiLog epiLog is offline

    Umeĺ
    Sweden

    Posts: 107
    Joined: Sep 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 1:45pm) in reply to Zeropants

    Yeah I've been interested in learning more about the game since it seems to be less stressful then no-limit but at the same time aren't there more money to win in no-limit? I also hear alot of people saying the swings are actually bigger in limit but I don't know if that's true or not.
    Thread Starter
  4. Adam Adam is offline Emperor

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 12,630
    Joined: Dec 04

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 1:46pm) in reply to epiLog

    Jennicide is going to talk about this very topic on the podcast this week, which will be available late tomorrow night
     
  5. OMG_LOL_WTF OMG_LOL_WTF is offline

    Los Angeles, CA
    United States

    Posts: 2,628
    Joined: Nov 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 1:50pm) in reply to Adam

    Easier decisions and cheap to draw out immediately come to mind.
  6. majic majic is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 295
    Joined: Jun 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 1:52pm) in reply to Zeropants

    >> It's less stress consistantly and alot of players are just more comfortable playing it because of that.

    I would disagree with this. Limit HE is more of a math based formulaic game where most of the money is made pushing small edges. There are a ton more suckouts in this game and the swings can be brutal, so less stress is definitely not the case. If you visit the 2+2 forums, discussions of variance often include downswings of 200-250BBs.

    That said, a lot of folks recognize a good player's edge is greater in NL because there is more creativity involved.

    M
  7. majic majic is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 295
    Joined: Jun 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 1:55pm) in reply to majic

    a good example of this was JJProdigys article w/Adam where he described donking off $30k in the pp 30/60 in a short period of time. Most good limit players talk about 50-100k hands before they feel confident in determining a true winrate at a given limit.

    M
  8. Smackover1 Smackover1 is offline

    Posts: 30
    Joined: Jul 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 2:00pm) in reply to epiLog

    Someone once said, I can't remember whom, that "Limit hold'em is a science, No Limit Hold'em is an artform."

    I have taken this to mean that in Limit you play the cards and in no limit you play the people.
  9. pba08 pba08 is offline

    Posts: 12
    Joined: Apr 06

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 2:41pm) in reply to Smackover1

    I started live as a NL player, but when I transitioned to online play, I went to Limit. The ROR is far lower, and while you do see the higher variance, it's less stressful, and I think more entertaining than NL.
  10. alfieo alfieo is offline

    Bayside, NY
    United States

    Posts: 589
    Joined: Feb 06

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 2:43pm) in reply to Smackover1

    I have always been more stressed playing limit. No limit I am in control and if I lose a big pot, I don't care as much because over the long term I know I will get it back, if I am playing right. In limit I cant control myself putting in one more bet. And over the course of an hour I have lost a lot of money with these 'one more bet' scenarios. In no limit I am more controlled.
  11. green100b green100b is offline

    Miami, FL
    United States

    Posts: 568
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 2:55pm) in reply to alfieo

    I think it all depends...saying limit is all about suckouts is actually incorrect.

    In limit, (especially mid to high limit) you have to be very accurate in your marginal situations. It's not so much about sucking out as it is being right when your marginal hands are good. Because you can't always bet anyone out of a pot, you have to recognize when you are ahead. Missing bets and making correct bets in Limit is crucial to being a winning player.

    Just as in NL, one can call people down as a dog with it being "cheaper" per hand since you aren't commiting all of your chips. But in the long run, you will wind up losing everything since mathemtically you are taking the worst of it more often than the best of it.

    I play both NL and Limit and find Limit to be a different type of stress. In NL you can prey on weak people and get them to fold winners and through big bets push people off of marginal hands that might be ahead. This is a skill.

    It's a different skill to be able to bet for value with middle pair since the "all-in", the "block-bet" and other tools are unavailable. I don't think Limit is a science at all - just different than NL.

    I actually believe being a good Limit player can make one a VERY good NL player since you see how often one is ahead in a marginal situation. You develop very good "card instincts" since you tend to see more hands shown down. You get the same people in Limit as you do in NL pushing draws to the max etc. Key is to keep pressing them for extra bets when you are ahead. And try and get them to fold marginal hands to aggressive betting.

    Many of this will not be true in lower limits where people just call you down. these games are more str8forward where you should bet when ahead, call if you are priced in, and folding when you feel you are beat. Too many people at 15/30 and below try and get fancy, when it's better just to play str8forward.
  12. majic majic is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

    Posts: 295
    Joined: Jun 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 3:00pm) in reply to green100b

    I agree with much of this. I didn't say limit was "all about suckouts" though. I said there are a ton more suckouts and that is simply because far more hands make it to showdown. Having a session where guys keep hitting their thin draws on the river can lead to horrible tilt in limit and that is where a lot of the stress originates for many players.

    M
  13. green100b green100b is offline

    Miami, FL
    United States

    Posts: 568
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 3:05pm) in reply to majic

    I have seen people lose a lot more money in limit in a day since it's not a big bet loss. In the 40/80 game in AC I have seen a guy go through $6K in a day which is pretty tough to do. He never thought he was playing bad. But he was losing lots of small pots with lousy hands and bled a slow death. It's much more dramatic in NL. It's easier in Limit to lose the Battle but Win the War since stack size isnt a variable in your strategy.
  14. epiLog epiLog is offline

    Umeĺ
    Sweden

    Posts: 107
    Joined: Sep 05

    May 9th, 2006 (5/9/2006 4:41pm) in reply to Adam

    Nice! Looking forward to it. The podcasts have been great so far.
    Thread Starter
  15. jsbyun jsbyun is offline

    Pleasanton, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,849
    Joined: Feb 05

    May 10th, 2006 (5/10/2006 1:47am) in reply to green100b

    Bottom line is that I make a lot more money playing limit than NL, but then again, I rarely play NL...hehe.
  16. ranchgirl ranchgirl is offline

    Austin, TX
    United States

    Posts: 1,038
    Joined: Mar 06

    May 10th, 2006 (5/10/2006 2:03am) in reply to Adam

    Will tune in - thanks.
  17. quaid745579 quaid745579 is offline

    Wheaton, IL
    United States

    Posts: 785
    Joined: Nov 05

    May 10th, 2006 (5/10/2006 3:58pm) in reply to jsbyun

    limit can be a very interesting and profitable game, especially short handed, where you find the loosest players. They play at these tables because you can play more hands. Usually i play 3/6 or 5/10 where you can find middle of the road competition. your win rate can exceed 2bb/100 because of the quickness of the short tables, and players inablility to adapt to the short game. one drawback is having to decrease the number of tables you play. i'll usually play 4 full tables, but shorthanded i can only play 3 max.
Reply to Thread