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Why you should never raise with the nuts on the river,

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  1. MiracleGro MiracleGro is offline

    Posts: 19
    Joined: Dec 05

    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 10:20pm)

    atleast not in this spot..........

    pokerstars Game #6758260347: Tournament #34146485, $30+$3 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/10/24 - 22:02:25 (ET)
    Table '34146485 53' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: efmike (4040 in chips)
    Seat 2: Guimp (3725 in chips)
    Seat 3: A55orG (4715 in chips)
    Seat 4: Tmay420 (10160 in chips)
    Seat 5: MiracleGro (4405 in chips)
    Seat 6: Purr Of Aces (650 in chips)
    Seat 7: Simon511 (8705 in chips)
    Seat 8: maiztro (13220 in chips)
    Seat 9: jona71 (3620 in chips) is sitting out
    Tmay420: posts small blind 25
    MiracleGro: posts big blind 50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to MiracleGro [Td Ac]
    Purr Of Aces: folds
    Simon511: calls 50
    maiztro: folds
    jona71: folds
    efmike: calls 50
    Guimp: calls 50
    A55orG: folds
    Tmay420: calls 25
    MiracleGro: checks
    *** FLOP *** [6h Ks Qc]
    Tmay420: checks
    MiracleGro: checks
    Simon511: checks
    efmike: checks
    Guimp: checks
    *** TURN *** [6h Ks Qc] [Ah]
    Tmay420: checks
    MiracleGro: checks
    Simon511: checks
    efmike: bets 150
    Guimp: calls 150
    Tmay420: calls 150
    MiracleGro: calls 150
    Simon511: folds
    *** RIVER *** [6h Ks Qc Ah] [Jc]
    Tmay420: bets 450
    MiracleGro: calls 450
    efmike: calls 450
    Guimp: folds
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Tmay420: shows [8h Th] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
    MiracleGro: shows [Td Ac] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
    efmike: mucks hand
    Tmay420 collected 1100 from pot
    MiracleGro collected 1100 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 2200 | Rake 0
    Board [6h Ks Qc Ah Jc]
    Seat 1: efmike mucked [Kh Jh]
    Seat 2: Guimp folded on the River
    Seat 3: A55orG (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: Tmay420 (small blind) showed [8h Th] and won (1100) with a straight, Ten to Ace
    Seat 5: MiracleGro (big blind) showed [Td Ac] and won (1100) with a straight, Ten to Ace
    Seat 6: Purr Of Aces folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: Simon511 folded on the Turn
    Seat 8: maiztro folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: jona71 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  2. swtballa swtballa is offline

    San Marcos, TX
    United States

    Posts: 146
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    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 10:46pm) in reply to MiracleGro

    Why would you not raise the river?
  3. Askesis_ Askesis_ is offline

    Tampa, FL
    United States

    Posts: 3,066
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    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 10:47pm) in reply to swtballa

    because the only person who will call taht raise is someone who has a ten, and you want to drag in other callers

    *edit* err, I said ace instead of ten
     
  4. THAY3R THAY3R is offline

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    Joined: May 06

    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 10:48pm) in reply to swtballa

    Because you have people to act behind you, and nobody will call your raise without a 10.
    225 
  5. IanPfister IanPfister is offline

    Madison Heights, MI
    United States

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    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 10:50pm) in reply to THAY3R

    Duh!!!
  6. Phil9 Phil9 is offline

    Harrison, TN
    United States

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    Joined: Dec 05

    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 11:32pm) in reply to MiracleGro

    Why wouldn't you? Yes, normal logic would say that only a guy with a 10 would call but you never know in poker. Someone may call with top 2 pair or a set. Sure you got an extra 450 out of it here but what if you got an idiot who was willing to call you allin? You lose absolutely nothing by pushing or putting in a slightly raise unless in a cash game where rake may kick in.
  7. lentes130 lentes130 is offline

    Frackville, PA
    United States

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    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 11:41pm) in reply to Phil9

    Always raise with the nuts what if the orginal better was betting trips there acting like he had a 10.
  8. johnnydingles johnnydingles is offline

    Ithaca, NY
    United States

    Posts: 70
    Joined: Sep 05

    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 11:46pm) in reply to Phil9

    Lol, actually you do LOSE something. You lose the 3rd guys 450. Pay attention.
  9. Phil9 Phil9 is offline

    Harrison, TN
    United States

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    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 11:49pm) in reply to johnnydingles

    Lol, actually you do LOSE something. You lose the 3rd guys 450. Pay attention.

    I did mention that in my post but I was referencing this technique over the long run and in the long run, you could definately lose potential chips in your stack.
  10. quaid745579 quaid745579 is offline

    Wheaton, IL
    United States

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    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 11:49pm) in reply to johnnydingles

    situation by situation basis,
  11. alwaysdrowning alwaysdrowning is offline

    Jarrettsville, MD
    United States

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    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 11:50pm) in reply to johnnydingles

    I understand the point obviously... but the title of this thread is retarded. You are just going to confuse the simpletons.

    Another reason is not to drive up rake in ring games.
  12. MiracleGro MiracleGro is offline

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    Oct 24th, 2006 (10/24/2006 11:54pm) in reply to Phil9

    Phil in this case i didnt see any value in raising because i know that Tmay is not going to lead out here without a 10. Against any random donk im more likely to raise, especially since we are only about half way through the rebuy period. But since i can be 99% sure i am splitting the pot with Tmay the only hope for some extra value is if someone behind me calls or raises.
    Thread Starter
  13. Phil9 Phil9 is offline

    Harrison, TN
    United States

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    Oct 25th, 2006 (10/25/2006 12:02am) in reply to MiracleGro

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Phil in this case i didnt see any value in raising because i know that Tmay is not going to lead out here without a 10. Against any random donk im more likely to raise, especially since we are only about half way through the rebuy period. But since i can be 99% sure i am splitting the pot with Tmay the only hope for some extra value is if someone behind me calls or raises. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    And I understand that. Of course, you used a title that is misleading by saying you should never raise with the nuts on the river and that is what I was correcting. Even in this scenario, you could get value out of raising the original bet if the person has something like a set that he may feel obligated to call.
  14. MiracleGro MiracleGro is offline

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    Joined: Dec 05

    Oct 25th, 2006 (10/25/2006 12:22am) in reply to Phil9

    "Even in this scenario, you could get value out of raising the original bet if the person has something like a set that he may feel obligated to call."

    No, Phil, in this scenario Tmay would never lead here with a set or anything other than a ten. Thats what makes this situation unique, and worthy of a post(kinda).
    As for the title i just thought it was funny.
    Thread Starter
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