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WSOP Double Shootout (Did I make a bad call??)

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  1. JHRose JHRose is offline

    Lafayette Hill, PA
    United States

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 9:14am)

    I'm not a big poster on the site but I do enjoy it, you are doing a great job with it. I also want to say that I don't have a huge bankroll and usually won't play a $100 buy in or higher unless I win my way in. I played in the Double Shootout last night on stars and came in 3rd. VIPDirect was in 3rd and went all in with pocket 99's, I called w/ KQ in the bb and was in 2nd at the time...I hit a K on the flop, the turn was blank, and a 9 came on the river to cripple me. I went out a couple of hands later w/ A 7 against A J. Was it a bad call with the KQ (I had about 5500 chips to VIP's 3200) or did I make the correct play? Let me know as my game needs some improvement. By the way VIP went out in 2nd and wasted all those chips!!!
     
  2. Cabo Cabo is offline

    Cumming, GA
    United States

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 9:45am) in reply to JHRose

    KQ is a decent hand 3-way but I lay it down here. I would have assumed he had Ax or a pair and would have waited for a better situation. But.... What were the blinds? What did you think he had?
  3. bpbenda bpbenda is offline

    Franklin, TN
    United States

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 9:47am) in reply to JHRose

    Blinds at the time?
  4. JHRose JHRose is offline

    Lafayette Hill, PA
    United States

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 9:48am) in reply to JHRose

    Blinds were 400/800 and I figured him for an under pair...it just didn't work and I was a bit upset with the call although I was a huge favorite until the river.
     
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  5. supermoves supermoves is offline invented poker

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 10:10am) in reply to JHRose

    If you were down to 3-handed, you must have been playing with him for a while...so you must have had some idea what he had. If you put him on an underpair, aside from making a great read, youre only a 55/44 underdog. So, if you feel like gambling to get a large chipstack, knowing that even if you lose, youre not going to be out (even if you lose, one double up and youre about back to where you were) make the call. If you want to be a little more conservative and wait for a better hand, fold. It really comes down to what hand you put him on. I would NOT have called if I put him on Ax...I might have called if I put him on an underpair.
    1
  6. bpbenda bpbenda is offline

    Franklin, TN
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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 10:23am) in reply to JHRose

    You were already in the top 8, so you were either finishing for $160 or a WSOP seat. It was a good read. You can debate it either way. You obviously were doing well and a decent case can be made for the call if you felt confident about the read and had been catching flops. The bottom line is that you were going to have to catch the flop in order to win the hand (according to your read). So, I don't think you can look back and kick yourself, because you made the correct read with the information at hand, you clearly felt confident about catching a K or Q, and you ultimately did. Unfortunately, the other player beat the odds and caught a lucky card on the turn. ... If this were a different format other than DS, say tourney or SNG where there was a notable difference in payout between 2nd and 3rd, I think you would have a stronger case for folding the KQ even with a correct read on his mid-pp. I think it was a reasonable call and nine times out of ten you are going to win that hand after catching the flop.
  7. JHRose JHRose is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 10:39am) in reply to supermoves

    Thanks, I guess when you lose in a spot like that you are unhappy whether it was a good call or a bad call...I am getting used to people hitting on the river against me...just not sure if that's a good thing! Thanks for your thoughts.
     
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  8. bpbenda bpbenda is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 10:56am) in reply to JHRose

    I made it to the final table of one of those DS a couple hours before the one you played and it is most definitely disheartening to make it that far and not win the WSOP seat. I can only imagine that when you hit that K, your eyes lit up and your mind started racing about the trip to Vegas and winning the seat and playing in the tournament, etc. Only natural. Don't allow your disappointment to cloud your better judgment. You made the correct read and play but got unlucky. It happens. Good luck in the future.
  9. skatter skatter is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 11:16am) in reply to JHRose

    It isn't clear as to whether the guy with 99 was on the button, or the SB. Let's assume he was on the button, and went all in.

    Pot Size:
    SB (400) + BB (800) = $1,200
    Button raises to $3,200
    SB folds
    Total: $4,400

    You had to call $2,400 to win $4,400. You did say that you suspected he had an underpair, which would make him a slight favorite. Let's examine your pot odds to see if this was the correct play, or if you were simply gambling.

    $4,400 / $2,400 = 1.8:1 (if the raiser was on the SB, your odds are even worse)

    You weren't quite getting the right odds to make this call, but it is borderline. This is a gamble, and since he had over 50% of your stack it was a pretty risky play. If you call and lose you are down to $2,300 (or less if that $5,500 didn't account for the BB you already had in the pot).

    Obviously you made a big catch on the flop, and got sucked out, but if you hadn't made that play you may not have felt it necessary to go all-in with A7 a few hands later to place 3rd.

    All in all, it's a tough decision, and I don't fault you for making the one you did. When the blinds are that high it's hard to lay down a strong hand like that.
  10. vipdirect vipdirect is offline

    Hollywood, FL
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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 11:59am) in reply to JHRose

    IF IT MAKES U FEEL BETTER I WAS BEAT HEADS UP WITH KQ AGAINST A PAIR. HE RIVERED A KING TO BEAT MY 10-10 , and i was forced to bong hit and xanax myself to sleep so i didnt break anything
  11. JHRose JHRose is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 12:53pm) in reply to vipdirect

    VIP, it does make me feel better and I needed to use some of those same vices to get myself to sleep. I enjoyed playing against that table and you inparticular...maybe we'll see each other on the tables soon. gg and gl.
     
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  12. vipdirect vipdirect is offline

    Hollywood, FL
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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 1:05pm) in reply to JHRose

    u cant really say i made a horrible play 3 handed in a ds.. i was just trying to generate some momentum
  13. JHRose JHRose is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 1:17pm) in reply to vipdirect

    I didn't say you made a bad play against me, you had the better cards pre flop and your better hand held up...I wish I was the one with the 99's...I think if anyone made the wrong play it was me. VIP, would you have called your bet with KQ if you were me?
     
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  14. vipdirect vipdirect is offline

    Hollywood, FL
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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 1:18pm) in reply to JHRose

    probably not i hate being deep with kq
  15. Adam Adam is offline Emperor

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 1:33pm) in reply to JHRose

    JH I watched that final table, sorry about your luck, I hope you get the seat soon. Personally I don't like calling that all in because I don't think there's any (certainly not many) situations where you might be a favorite. Sure there's a small chance he has something like K J, but an overwhelming majority of the time, he has an ace or a pair, and all of those situations have you as an underdog, some of them worse than others.

    --Adam
     
  16. JHRose JHRose is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2005 (4/1/2005 1:49pm) in reply to Adam

    Thanks Adam, I hope I get the seat sonn too. When will they stop runnning the wsop sats?? Does anyone know?
     
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