How many chips do you have here and what is your image of the cut-off?

You left off like half of the equation before anyone can adequately answer. How old is the guy and what are your reads on him? How many chips do you have behind? If you have 500k and will be down to 9 bbs if you call and lose it's more likely to be a fold if you have like 1 million behind. You're about 2-3 hours from the money so your play is completely dependant on your reads and stack. Actually day 4 blinds started at like the 4k or 5k level, are you sure this isn't day 5?

People play way more passively live than online, so unless he's some early 20s internet player who came in short and has been push botting it it seems like a fold. Lots of snap calls online are snap folds live and this definately seems like one of those spots.

Sorry posting for a friend, it is beginning of day 5 then and in the money. Guy is middle aged and that's about only read to this point.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.958% 44.14% 01.82% 3337364412 137797116.00 { KJo }
Hand 1: 54.042% 52.22% 01.82% 3948575820 137797116.00 { 22+, A2s+, K7s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.832% 41.94% 01.89% 2835472080 127627686.00 { KJo }
Hand 1: 56.168% 54.28% 01.89% 3669448740 127627686.00 { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

It's a +cEV call with a wider range. I would take exception with the statement that its certainly a pretty good call. It could be profitable. Even if it was profitable, in an event with such a good structure, I'm pretty confident you can make calls where the margin of error is greater than 1-2%.

Like scary said, other factors are more important. Even assuming it's a 20 year old internet kid, I wouldn't be making this call unless it's for less than 25% of my stack.

Edit: and as Scary just posted, pass on small +cEV situations. Based on the new details just posted, easy fold.

gonna have to 100% agree with scary...lotta online spots that are calls are snap folds live...I think just seems way marginal to be callin here...gotta put a ton of emphasize on the fact its the live 10k main event peoples jammin ranges in this event seemed real narrow from what i saw on tv.

Just such a huge transition live compared to online its pretty amazing...can't see that ever being profitable call, even online thats on the loose side

 

Originally Posted by LiquidSw0rd

its certainly reasonable but some ppl here shove 45ss, 89o and so on, so if we have that read folding is pure rape and certainly not a 'minor +ev spot'.

I highly doubt many people are shoving those cards from the HJ on Day 5 of the ME with 16bbs.

 

Originally Posted by tyson219

I highly doubt many people are shoving those cards from the HJ on Day 5 of the ME with 16bbs.

yes usually but when the av. stack is like 50bbs ppl will feel very short here and shove much more lighter than the usual 16bbs live push here i think.

i still agree with most ppl here that its a fold 'in a vacuum', but i just wanted to point out that as soon as we get a read that villain is shoving a very wide range i really think we should make that call, and also calling here is pretty cool for our image cause we could expect ppl to make tighter opens on our big blind next time.

Look, the call/fold is completely dependent on how the player who shoved has been playing, what his image is, what his tendencies are. Without this information, no answer is really satisfactory.

It's an easy fold considering you've only played one orbit with this table. If you had a good idea that the player was stealing often there because he had shoved often when he's folded to then it becomes more correct to call because his range would have to be wider, but it sounds like you didn't have much information about his style and habits, so I would say it's an easy fold in this case.

 

Originally Posted by Vekked

I think we can pretty safely discount some of the top of his range here though. Even without any solid reads I think it's probably a mistake to give him all combo's of AK/JJ+ at least. That being said I def fold here vs. a middle-aged player live in the ME without a solid read for most of the reasons already covered.

True enough about the big pairs but I think we can safely include all combos of AK, mostly because he's an older guy. And most ppl that age don't really understand how big of a hand AK is and will usually play it all in in this spot, esp considering the this is day 5 in the ME.

That said, I really think this is a super turbo snap fold. I really wouldn't even give it a second thought. Without reads I range the guy 55+, A8s, A9o+, KJo+, QJo, QJs, maaaaybe JTs and thats about it. Maybe a few more As but probably not. Old guys playing for huge amounts of money generally are not gonna be pushing anywhere remotely close to optimally.

wow, easiest fold ever in wsop main? don't think this is close. i'd start considering a9s,ATo,66,KQs if i felt my villain to be competent, but still think all of them might even be folds in this tourney, esp like scarypooper said, if it's an old dude.

"If the guy is middle aged it isn't even close, don't even think about it. If you don't have a read on him to this point, it's because he hasn't played a hand. I probably sigh fold KQ to a middle aged guy shoving 16 BBs."

although some people on here will show you some fancy math saying that this is a call, the ranges that they are assigning the shover are very very incorrect. most people are shoving like decent suited Ax hands and pairs here and mayyyyybe KJ and KQ. most people in a live tourney (especially the main) are not shoving suited connectors or K9s type hands here for this many chips

Still not calling. The math may make it a close call (but I still doubt it, villain would have to be shoving pretty wide), but never by more than 2-4%. As I said above, with a great structure in the WSOP ME, you can pass on marginal spots like this since 1) you'll have opportunities to get it in with better odds and 2) you lose the ability to play a full game when dropping from a decent stack to a short/reshove stack.

Meh, I'd probs call the younger guy. I suppose some people can justify folding but I'd like to think that if my table's soft enough that I'm considering passing up +EV spots, I should also be significantly +EV with a 24BB stack still, and furthermore I should be able to rape even more with the extra chips when I win the AIPF. The argument that you lose some future equity when we lose the hand is only relevant to certain players. If someone is going to play a lot better with 50-60BB than 30-40BB for whatever reason, it might be more of a reason to make the call. If you play a great 30-40BB stack and are kind of weak <25BB then obv it's more of a reason to fold.

I don't know how many players are actually that much stronger or weaker with those stack ranges, but the point is that folding because you think you're going to be hand-cuffed with 25BB is not necessarily a universal concern since how negative of an impact it is going to have on your overall strategy is going to differ significantly from player to player.

Seems like a very trivial hand.

If I have 40 bb I am folding KJo here and not giving it much consideration at all.

Not many people are even talking about overall table dynamics. The harder the table the more you need to take all +EV spots including the very marginal ones. If the table is average to soft this is even more of a snap fold. You can use your 40 bb far more effectively than calling off with King high here.