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WTF spot in FTOPS...results

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  1. anticure anticure is offline

    Oshkosh, WI
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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:44pm)

    Full Tilt Poker Game #13844217456: FTOPS Event #1 (96414503), Table 170 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:28:19 ET - 2009/08/05
    Seat 1: eddy81 (5,250)
    Seat 2: gizmocanelle (4,301)
    Seat 3: blizzard626 (6,270)
    Seat 4: anticure (5,270)
    Seat 5: dbutton316 (6,078)
    Seat 7: Shotgun78111 (3,521)
    Seat 8: mahoney3 (7,020)
    Seat 9: DannyMac31 (7,290)
    DannyMac31 posts the small blind of 20
    eddy81 posts the big blind of 40
    The button is in seat #8
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to anticure [As Kh]
    gizmocanelle folds
    blizzard626 calls 40
    anticure has 15 seconds left to act
    anticure raises to 179
    dbutton316 calls 179
    Shotgun78111 folds
    mahoney3 calls 179
    DannyMac31 folds
    eddy81 folds
    blizzard626 folds
    *** FLOP *** [6h 3h Ah]
    anticure bets 369
    dbutton316 calls 369
    mahoney3 has 15 seconds left to act
    mahoney3 calls 369
    *** TURN *** [6h 3h Ah] [2h]
    anticure checks
    dbutton316 checks
    mahoney3 checks
    *** RIVER *** [6h 3h Ah 2h] [Qd]
    anticure has 15 seconds left to act
    anticure bets 995
    dbutton316 has 15 seconds left to act
    dbutton316 has requested TIME
    dbutton316 calls 995
    mahoney3 has 15 seconds left to act
    mahoney3 has requested TIME
    mahoney3 raises to 3,700
    anticure has 15 seconds left to act
    anticure has requested TIME

    can he have anything else here?
    This is for so many chips so early in such a good tourney...villian has 300k cashes stars and 75k profits only plays big boy tourneys 100r-3k buyins, no profits on FTP but only plays big buyins $393 abi...that was a big reason for the WTF
     
  2. rungoodmuch rungoodmuch is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:46pm) in reply to anticure

    I shove

    I can see 5h4h in his flatting range. But I still dont think I fold here.
  3. doomed222 doomed222 is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:48pm) in reply to anticure

    Please wager all of your chips at this time
  4. anticure anticure is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:50pm) in reply to rungoodmuch

    what can he possibly be making this raise with is the question here?
     
    Thread Starter
  5. Burying_Luck Burying_Luck is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:51pm) in reply to rungoodmuch

    45hh ouch. hope you're not serious about actually inquiring advice about this beat/hand tho.
  6. rungoodmuch rungoodmuch is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:51pm) in reply to anticure

     
    Originally Posted by anticure View Post

    what can he possibly be making this raise with is the question here?

    Maybe banking on the fact that its early in a big tourny and his raise looks like the nuts.
  7. anticure anticure is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:53pm) in reply to rungoodmuch

     
    Originally Posted by rungoodmuch View Post

     
    Originally Posted by anticure View Post

    what can he possibly be making this raise with is the question here?

    Maybe banking on the fact that its early in a big tourny and his raise looks like the nuts.

    if he is doing that this early...he is a sick sick human
     
    Thread Starter
  8. Camz Camz is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:53pm) in reply to anticure

    45hh or AsQh
  9. rungoodmuch rungoodmuch is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:54pm) in reply to anticure

     
    Originally Posted by anticure View Post

     
    Originally Posted by rungoodmuch View Post

     
    Originally Posted by anticure View Post

    what can he possibly be making this raise with is the question here?

    Maybe banking on the fact that its early in a big tourny and his raise looks like the nuts.

    if he is doing that this early...he is a sick sick human

    eww you actually tossed. I cant see myself folding but maybe thats my leak. gl the rest of the way
  10. Wiscomurray Wiscomurray is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:55pm) in reply to anticure

    lol this really is wtf. Like it seems he has to have it here. the first guy flat calling the 995 on river prob has weak heart like 10h, Jh, or Qh. That being said, its a lot more unlikely Mahoney is making a bad raise with a bad flush. idk, im confused but I say fold and should prob quit playin poker. haha
     2
  11. Deoxyribo Deoxyribo is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 9:59pm) in reply to Wiscomurray

    this has to be a level right? you cant fold. u seriously think he has the 54hh. if he does thats a cooler. gg.
     
  12. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 10:01pm) in reply to Camz

     
    Originally Posted by Camz2895 View Post

    45hh or AsQh

    Exactly what I was thinking. vould be the 45hh, AxQh or any Qh xx.

    He could easily make this play with the Qh after everyone checks the turn. Only the 45hh or the kh can beat him. And in this spot even the Kh might lay down because it looks so much like the 45.

    Did you scope/db him?
     
  13. anticure anticure is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 10:05pm) in reply to bonflizubi

     
    Originally Posted by bonflizubi View Post

     
    Originally Posted by Camz2895 View Post

    45hh or AsQh

    Exactly what I was thinking. vould be the 45hh, AxQh or any Qh xx.

    He could easily make this play with the Qh after everyone checks the turn. Only the 45hh or the kh can beat him. And in this spot even the Kh might lay down because it looks so much like the 45.

    Did you scope/db him?

    300k cashes stars and 75k profits only plays big boy tourneys 100r-3k buyins, no profits on FTP but only plays big buyins $393 abi...that was a big reason for the WTF
     
    Thread Starter
  14. DBo Fo Sho DBo Fo Sho is offline Taking advantage of Official Threads

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 10:10pm) in reply to anticure

    He's not value betting the Qh in this spot, so your range for him is completely irrelevant
  15. Wiscomurray Wiscomurray is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 10:15pm) in reply to DBo Fo Sho

     
    Originally Posted by DBo Fo Sho View Post

    He's not value betting the Qh in this spot, so your range for him is completely irrelevant

    Thats why this is wtf. i understand that.
     2
  16. Smokin Zags Smokin Zags is offline 2010 CA Amateur Golf Champion

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    Aug 5th, 2009 (8/5/2009 10:16pm) in reply to anticure

    sure as hell looks like 45hh,

    but that doesn't mean I fold.
     
  17. jdpc27 jdpc27 is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 2:32am) in reply to Smokin Zags

    the way the hand played out, he could actually have the Queen of hearts here and play it that way...that is the only part that makes me pause for a second..

    with that being said, he is a smart enough player to know that his queen of hearts has a ton of showdown value here and he just isn't that sick or that stupid (depending on your viewpoint) to turn the 3rd nuts into a bluff...especially since most players will not lay the king down here and he has to know that....so I believe in this spot 100% of the time he has one hand and one hand only.. 45hh Sighaments

    only way i could buy that he doesn't have the nuts here is if this was among two really good reg's who have a bunch of history on each other and are deep in a tournament with a ton of money on the line...that just isn't the case here.

    He expects the King of hearts to have to call and this is one hand that fortunately and unfortunately you can get away from if you want too..

    If you are asking what you do here, you fold. If you are asking if most poker players can find the fold button here, the answer is no.

    JD
    22 
  18. Hitman Hitman is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 2:39am) in reply to jdpc27

    2 things:

    First, the way this hand has played out, he does not expect you to hold the Kh. And he knows for sure the caller doesn't have it. He is making a raise that he expects you to not be able to call.

    Second, would he flat the flop with 54hh? idk, might be time for a raise right there. Maybe not.

    Balzy bluff this early in the event? Sure. But there's a lot of chips out there, and he expects to have a high rate of success based on how it played out. He didn't have a lot of success in prior baller MTT's by failing to seize what looked like good opportunities to steal large pots when they presented themselves.
  19. Omfg Itz Nicky Omfg Itz Nicky is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 4:04am) in reply to anticure

    Its a bluff... that's my favorite bluff to pull. 4 card to a flush. he knows you cant call unless u have the nut flush. alot of money in the pot and hes a good enough player to pull it off. also u have a player to act behind you. It works for me 90% of the time. they never call with second nuts. I hope u didnt fold!
  20. shanetrain22 shanetrain22 is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 7:18am) in reply to jdpc27

     
    Originally Posted by jdpc27 View Post

    the way the hand played out, he could actually have the Queen of hearts here and play it that way...that is the only part that makes me pause for a second..

    with that being said, he is a smart enough player to know that his queen of hearts has a ton of showdown value here and he just isn't that sick or that stupid (depending on your viewpoint) to turn the 3rd nuts into a bluff...especially since most players will not lay the king down here and he has to know that....so I believe in this spot 100% of the time he has one hand and one hand only.. 45hh Sighaments

    only way i could buy that he doesn't have the nuts here is if this was among two really good reg's who have a bunch of history on each other and are deep in a tournament with a ton of money on the line...that just isn't the case here.

    He expects the King of hearts to have to call and this is one hand that fortunately and unfortunately you can get away from if you want too..

    If you are asking what you do here, you fold. If you are asking if most poker players can find the fold button here, the answer is no.

    JD

    I don't entirely agree with your reasoning in the bold paragraph. Given the action up to the river, the Qh should feel like the nizzles atm. He's clearly not worried about the guy who flatted in the middle having Kh/45hh, and given how weak he should know this field is, a reasonable case can be made for him to raise the river with the Qh expecting to get called by an awful random who has like AxJh a decent amount of the time. The Qh has more than just showdown value here, and raising river with it certainly isn't turning his hand into a bluff (note: not saying raising river with the Qh is best or anything, just saying there is def merit for it).

    All that said, his fairly large raise on the river doesn't look indicative of the Qh (nuts or bluff imo). And since this guy is apparently a solid player based on what OP said about his stats, so unless he's gone insane I can't imagine a good player in a weak/massive field spewing here with a bluff. Hero folds are lame when you've got the 2nd nuts here, but I think he almost always has 45hh here. Doubt I'd fold tho :(

    edit: btw, bet turn OP.
     1
  21. anticure anticure is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 9:49am) in reply to Omfg Itz Nicky

     
    Originally Posted by Omfg Itz Nicky View Post

    Its a bluff... that's my favorite bluff to pull. 4 card to a flush. he knows you cant call unless u have the nut flush. alot of money in the pot and hes a good enough player to pull it off. also u have a player to act behind you. It works for me 90% of the time. they never call with second nuts. I hope u didnt fold!

    spewbluffing off most your stack at the beginning of a weak FTOPS field would be a leak sir
     
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  22. spiderweb80 spiderweb80 is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 10:58am) in reply to anticure

    id never fold here, i misread the hand yesterday...
     
  23. MUPokerPlayer MUPokerPlayer is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 1:02pm) in reply to anticure

    easy call, and prob a shove imho. 54hh would raise that flop in a 3 way pot like 99% of the time.
  24. njo1987 njo1987 is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 1:31pm) in reply to anticure

    The check on the turn prob looks really weak to him, and he might just think u are making a play at the pot and since the caller in the middle doesnt raise he puts him on the 10h or jh...perfect spot for a bluff, if he has 45hh w/e, cooler. take that into acct and plus the fact that a baby flush would more than likely raise in a three way pot on the flop...as played i just put the rest in and cry if he has 45hh

    Results?
  25. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 1:33pm) in reply to Wiscomurray

    do anything but fold
    170 2 

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  26. dcoop45 dcoop45 is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 2:15pm) in reply to anticure

    you folded?
     
  27. Diggs Diggs is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 2:25pm) in reply to anticure

    Would 45hh really check behind on the turn here?

    Not folding
  28. creekhouse creekhouse is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 2:30pm) in reply to Diggs

    Results?
     
  29. DFish DFish is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 2:31pm) in reply to anticure

    Wow this is sickening, if this were PLO, it would be an easy muck, but it's not, so iuno, this really really sucks, but I'd prolly... shit, I just don't know. Its not as easy of a call as some people are making it out to be tho, but its probably a call... I guess :(
     
  30. jdpc27 jdpc27 is offline

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    Aug 6th, 2009 (8/6/2009 2:58pm) in reply to DFish

    I still fold here...imo. I know the line implies that this is a good spot for him to make a move, but that doesn't mean that he is making one...this would be a whole different discussion if it was deep in the tourney, but we are in a 3 way pot at 20/40. Out of 10 times you see this play happen like this, i'd say probably 7-8 of those times he is going to have then nizzuts... And for those that are calling...it should be a gut wrenching time banking type of affair...

    JD
    22 
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