I'm not folding...

 

Originally Posted by rivverkiller

I'm not folding...

Me either.

Lol, that limp/overcall of shove is amusing... never folding tho.

 

Originally Posted by Aarin

What's their range? Why not fold? I'm not even that nitty and I think it's discipline time with this one.

He can shove/fold later to get ITM, rather than feeling like a dummy going into an obvious bad situation. The Villains know it's the bubble too, so one of them has to be good for it.

EDIT -- TY for explaining ^.^

Well without knowing the players at all, I just think the original shover's range is going to be tightish, but not too tight to make it a fold...Like I said, I think he can be seeing OP's raise of the limp to be weaker than it actually is...after all, to him it looks like a LP limp and a guy abusing that limp...he shoves seeing as the effective stacks are only 29-30ish bbs(limper's stack).

As OP said, the limper is a losing player, and I just see this limp call being a smaller pair a ton of the time. SOMETIMES it will be a huge hand, but the vast majority of the time, QQ crushes his limp/calling range there given our OPR read on him.

All that added together, I think QQ is ahead of both of their ranges, and honestly, probably even crushes their ranges. Also, it's not like we have a massive stack and can just wait forever...if I remember right, we only have 20 bbs, so this is just a perfect spot for us to get our chips in when we are likely ahead their ranges IMO.

I mean, if I'm sitting in the first shover's seat, my range is going to be tightish as I said before, only because even though I see him as simply iso'ing the limper in LP, I still would think he had something decent given he only has 20 bbs...but I'd still be shoving anywhere from like 88+ AJs+ a lot of the time, obv depending on other factors such as any previous reads or what not.

And also, there are some situations where you fold to get ITM, but generally, if this is your gameplan, it's gonna cut down on a lot of your top 3 finishes, where the money actually is. And don't care about feeling or looking like a "dummy" when you make a play that you think is correct...just take that situation and learn from it. Even if OP posted that both villains had AA or KK...I still would feel the same that this has to be a spot to get it in here given our reads. But I never base my decisions on if I'll feel stupid after or look stupid to the table...if I go with my read and do what I think is correct, I'm not going to feel bad if one particular situation goes wrong.

All that said, if I had JJ here...given our same reads and the same situation, I would still almost definitely get it in as well, but TT is super close IMO

If you dont like money than fold..... If you like money than call

Something i see a lot at p5s is when someone makes a post and they have QQ+ the general consensus is to go with it.

I think however in these tournaments ppl play so bad that they basically flip their hands straight up. Now here, can shover have AK and original limper JJ? maybe. But tbh kashmir just shipping reps a big hand and the limp call is amusing to say the least, but it's just most likely a monster.

Now idk if a fold is good here or not. I just think we shouldn't be snapping here by any means and at least take a little time to think wait, is QQ really good here or not?

Sorry I can't offer any real advice, most likely I would call and lose. But i'm just wondering if as good players we should be re-evaluating a spot like this. Just seems obv that there is at the minimum AK out there i mean ur really hoping for AK and JJ imo when u call here with QQ.

blah long post. Sorry. idrk what the right move is here, great post.

Seems pretty obvious to me. Cant ever fold here.