Paradise 50k, 26 left. You have 200k in chips. Average is 110k. Blinds are 10k and 20k.
You are in BB with AKs - clubs, 20k in big blind, 180k behind.
Fold around to solid player with 210k in chips on button who raises to 52,500. He's not played your BB yet, and has folded several steal opportunities on the button.
Question 1: What do you do?
Real life: Call bringing pot to 119k
Board brings: 3c Jh 5s
You lead out at pot with 50k bet.
Button goes all-in for remaining 157,500 in chips which covers you by over 10k. You still have 98,000 in chips. Pot sits at 310,000 in chips. If you miss, you will be out.
Question 2: What do you do?
Real life: call
Button flips over J10s for a pair of Jacks.
BB wins with a wheel.
Question 3: How would you rate the play of each player?
First of all, lets state the obvious: youre a better player than I am.
Now, to my answer...I think this is an EASY reraise all in preflop...unless this guy has AA, you have a chance..and most likley its a coinflip. You have to pick your coinflips and this seems like one of those where you HAVE to take it. If you fold you have less than 10 BB and AKs is about the best hand youre likley to get in the next ten. I say reraise over the top, preflop, in this situation. Either he folds (Im guessing he would have) and you win 100K or he has to call because of pot odds and you have him dominated...which you would have. In this case he would have gotten lucky and hit his jack, but the play would have been correct. Now, if someone held a gun to my head and FORCED me to call preflop...I..I dont even know what I would do there, cause Id tell the guy he has to shoot me...you REALLY need to push there...IMO. I dont MIND his play there, although I would have likley picked a better hand than 10-J to steal with...A-5s, pocket pairs (although thats not really a bluff), K-10....but not J-10....although I dont HATE the play, I do think it was a slight overplay of J-10...which I see a lot.
Super, thanks for the feedback.
Pushing all-in would certainly be a popular choice pre-flop. The only downside to that would be that you've got stack #4 and pushing in against stack #3 with an unpaired hand. You've got probably 85-90% chance that the BB would fold, and in this case he would have. This player just saw this particular button player double up two hands earlier when the SB pushes a 100k stack all-in with 88 only to have the BB wakeup with KK. The BB player was certainly happy to be there that deep in the tourney. So, the push would probably be beyond his comfort zone.
I think it certainly doesn't make sense to call pre-flop and then call all-in when your hand misses.
BTW, I was not the BB, but appreciate the effort to diffuse the criticism. I was the button trying to take advantage of the wide-eyed fishie.
This is a situation where I don't like the smooth call preflop. I agree with the previous poster when he says that you have to move in at this point with the AKs. This is such a good hand at this point in the tourny to get all your money in, in a spot where you are at worst a coinflip. He could have AA or KK, but I would much rather get my money in in this spot and hope he doesn't. At this point in the tourny and the fact that he has you covered, it is to your advantage to get all the money in preflop and allow yourself the oppurtunity to see all 5 community cards. At this point, even though you are a good player, you don't want to risk calling preflop and then getting out played on the flop when you flop nothing. I would say here, move it in with the AKs. Wtih the 10J, I don't mind the raise or the call of the all-in. He definitly hoped to accomplish a blind steal raising with this hand preflop, however, this one of the best flops he could have hoped for given his hand. I don't mind the play, however, I don't think the hand should have come to that point, as the person with AKs should have moved in preflop making it an easy laydown for the J10.
I don't get this? Move all in with AK when you have worked for hours to get where you are? A call, I think, is the only move preflop. Let's remember that AK is a drawing hand.
He doesn't want to be in a fight for his life -- he wants to put other smaller stacks at the board in fights for their life. This is not the right spot for a big battle (after missing on the flop).
I recently read Chris Moneymaker's book about his WSOP win. He said he folded AK three times during the tournament preflop. I'm not saying you laydown AK preflop here because it's only a quarter of your stack, but the call by AK after the flop and after the all in is terrible. He took his shot with a 50k bet -- good try but he has to give it up.
Now what about the play of 10J. I disagree with the steal attempt. It's the wrong fight. Pick on the smaller stacks. The all-in is ok but isn't it possible the guy with AK really had KJ?
AKs on the big blind...and you have a button raise at you. I would say probably half the time you are much better than a 50/50 in this spot assuming you get called every time you push all in. I know if i make a button steal with a small or even medium pair, and get played back at all in by a guy who can bust me its going to very difficult for me to justify calling him.
I think the correct play with the AK was to push all in preflop. Lets say for example the button raiser has pocket 5s. If he calls your all in 100% of the time you will win that pot about 50% of the time(unless you have cashed out recently and are playing on UB). NOW...if the guy has any sense at all, it is very possible that he folds that hand, unwilling to risk his tournament on a spot where he knows he is at best 50/50. Say 2 out of 10 players will lay down a small to medium pair against that reraise. Now in my mind, i am 60% favorite to win if i am racing....better than that if its a smaller ace or king....and an unlucky sob if its aa or kk. I love those odds. GO ALL IN BIG BLIND.
With the blinds that high, even with 200k you've only got 10 BB left. Don't you think that's time to gamble a little more, especially with a hand as strong as AK suited? A small raise from that position doesn't really indicate a strong hand, so chances are the initial raiser would fold, especially in this example.
Calling preflop in my mind is just disgusting. AK figures to be a much bigger favorite than a coinflip in this spot a lot of the time. Couldn't the button be raising with any hand that beats two random hands or a hand like J10 in this spot? Don't you make this button raise with A2-AQ? And to flat call preflop then check/fold a non AK flop doesn't make sense either. If you're willing to flat call preflop with AK, then you must be willing to put your chips in without a pair. Are there any advantages to flat calling preflop because I don't see any...
And mindwise, you suggested to pick on the smaller stacks. The smaller stacks have essentially no chips and are bound to call with K high and Q high, both of which beat J10. If choosing to steal, it is correct to steal from someone with about 10bb left, someone who is capable of folding to a raise.
I think it was played perfectly by J10, and HORRIBLY by AKs. The only thing AKs did that I liked was lead at the pot post flop. Everything else was terrible. Bad luck, Awwwwnutz. . . but you already know that.
I'm nowhere near the level of other players here but I'll take a swing...feedback welcome.
Question 1: I'd shove or fold. Depends on who else is at your table. If you've been successfully beating up on the smaller stacks and #3 stack has been staying out of your way for the most part, then why tangle here with someone who can break you? If you call, you're most likely going to be facing a big bet on the flop...so if you aren't going to fold if you miss, just shove preflop and put the pressure on the PF raiser. If I was having success pushing around the table a bit till this point, i'd fold and move on.
Question 2: Ugh...I like the attempt at taking the pot with the 50k, but with the reraise you gotta know you're beat here. Maybe they have nothing....but i'd be pissed at myself for getting myself into this spot right about now. Probably fold and mark myself down for an interception.
Question 3: BB got married to his cards. If he's gonna call on the flop even when he misses he should've shoved PF. I liked the steal attempt and couldn't ask for a much better flop if I were the button. I would be shocked I didn't get a fold with the shove on the flop. I'd have to question what my table image was at the time, or if the BB was too busy watching a movie.
my .02 cents,
I don't hate the smoothcall preflop, if it's to avoid a race situation, just looking for a safe flop with an ace or king.. but then why lead out when nothing flops, that looks very much like "i missed" to me and you're going to get action only from hands you're way behind. So yeah I mean, I think if you're going to go all in on the flop when you miss anyway, why not push preflop?
Calling preflop is not an option, in my opinion. The only time MAYBE to do this is in a satellite, close to the payouts, and then I would probably fold. Taking a flop with AK for 1/4 of your chips just does not make sense! You are only going to hit the flop barely more than 1/3 of the time. When you hit, you'll usually be ahead. But you'll also not likely get paid off by a solid player. That's all beside the point though as 64% of the time you are going to be in bad shape on the flop, out of position. If you're going to play this hand, the ONLY move is all in.
1) You have fold equity---there's a very real possibility that the button player is not strong enough to call here and folds.
2) You're way ahead of most hands--if he has a pocket pair, you're barely worse than 50/50. If he has anything else, you're ahead. There's a very small chance he has AA or KK, but I generally discount that chance in this situation, because there are only 3 of each left in the deck and he I don't expect him to have one of these hands more than 1-2% of the time.
3) Taking a flop with AK for 1/4 of your chips, out of position, and not as the aggressor in the pot is just not logical. Leading out on the flop regardless of the cards was a good move, but it still doesn't change that you're stuck playing a flop with nothing 64% of the time.
This hand happens to be a perfect example illustrating why AK is a hand to shove in all your chips with, not call and take a flop, ESPECIALLY out of position.
The preflop call by BB is really bad, he has to go all in here. I would have bet more on the flop if I was the button. 50K is a weak bet, and BB might think he will be able to make you fold by going all in. I probably would have folded if I made a bet like that and BB goes all in. Your hand is just too weak, and thats why you gotta bet more.
Thx for feedback. The BB actually led out with the 50k, then the button pushed all-in and BB called.
Also through the text of this one and the other post, you will find that I reversed my position with the other player trying to see it from their perspective. I was actually not the BB, but the button. Was trying to see if anyone would give the button's play some love, cause I thought it was bad.
Obviously, this is a shove for the BB. I wish he would have, I would have folded and lived on in the tourney.
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