Originally Posted by rivverkiller

 

Originally Posted by jokerswild

 

Originally Posted by brsavage

I think it's a great move.

Zee is a great example of someone truly being apologetic and making amends by being contrite and staying out of trouble.

Zee being reinstated is a win/win for Stars. It shows they take the issue serious enough to ban someone for a lenghty time, but they can also show compassion and reinstate an account if the person shows true remorse and does right.

gl

So how is the random cheater clearing or proving himself to be worthy of stars forgiveness? Posting I'm sorry threads and saying I was wrong? I guess you need a sponsership deal with another crooked outfit and play there for a while. This is a fuckin joke Stars.... He may be a nice guy and good at poker but HE STILL CHEATED!!! Next everyone's rooting for Russ Hamilton on UB

Yeah you're right...everyone in prison deserves a life sentence too imo. He'll never learn if you give him a second chance...vigilence is needed.

LoL they do have bans that are month long week long year long... But MAing is considered LIFE BAN on every site... So no he does not deserve to come back regardless if he has stopped or not. I could go out and kill a person and get life, get let out for good behavior and sure I probably won't kill anyone else but does that make it ok for me to be let out early?

 

Originally Posted by jokerswild

 

Originally Posted by rivverkiller

 

Originally Posted by jokerswild

 

Originally Posted by brsavage

I think it's a great move.

Zee is a great example of someone truly being apologetic and making amends by being contrite and staying out of trouble.

Zee being reinstated is a win/win for Stars. It shows they take the issue serious enough to ban someone for a lenghty time, but they can also show compassion and reinstate an account if the person shows true remorse and does right.

gl

So how is the random cheater clearing or proving himself to be worthy of stars forgiveness? Posting I'm sorry threads and saying I was wrong? I guess you need a sponsership deal with another crooked outfit and play there for a while. This is a fuckin joke Stars.... He may be a nice guy and good at poker but HE STILL CHEATED!!! Next everyone's rooting for Russ Hamilton on UB

Yeah you're right...everyone in prison deserves a life sentence too imo. He'll never learn if you give him a second chance...vigilence is needed.

It's a joke how everyone on here can continually bash UB about cheating players and then all the sudden someone should be allowed to serve less than a lifeban for cheating you .. just lol...

UB did absolutely nothing to fix their issues even after they were reported. They basically called the whole online community idiots. It wasn't until a group of players had done all their work for them that they finally admitted that they had a cheater in the system.

Justin atleast came out with a sincere apology and as far as we know didn't violate any of the sanctions placed on him. JJ on the other hand openly admitted that he was still playing online and still multiaccounting.

To not give him a second chance is extremely short sited imo...he was young and made a mistake, we've all made mistakes, including yourself and I'm sure you were given a second chance.

 

Originally Posted by rivverkiller

 

Originally Posted by jokerswild

 

Originally Posted by rivverkiller

 

Originally Posted by jokerswild

 

Originally Posted by brsavage

I think it's a great move.

Zee is a great example of someone truly being apologetic and making amends by being contrite and staying out of trouble.

Zee being reinstated is a win/win for Stars. It shows they take the issue serious enough to ban someone for a lenghty time, but they can also show compassion and reinstate an account if the person shows true remorse and does right.

gl

So how is the random cheater clearing or proving himself to be worthy of stars forgiveness? Posting I'm sorry threads and saying I was wrong? I guess you need a sponsership deal with another crooked outfit and play there for a while. This is a fuckin joke Stars.... He may be a nice guy and good at poker but HE STILL CHEATED!!! Next everyone's rooting for Russ Hamilton on UB

Yeah you're right...everyone in prison deserves a life sentence too imo. He'll never learn if you give him a second chance...vigilence is needed.

It's a joke how everyone on here can continually bash UB about cheating players and then all the sudden someone should be allowed to serve less than a lifeban for cheating you .. just lol...

UB did absolutely nothing to fix their issues even after they were reported. They basically called the whole online community idiots. It wasn't until a group of players had done all their work for them that they finally admitted that they had a cheater in the system.

Justin atleast came out with a sincere apology and as far as we know didn't violate any of the sanctions placed on him. JJ on the other hand openly admitted that he was still playing online and still multiaccounting.

To not give him a second chance is extremely short sited imo...he was young and made a mistake, we've all made mistakes, including yourself and I'm sure you were given a second chance.

So Stars new policy is as follows..
Set up as many accounts as you want... enter the same tourney with all your accounts.. IF we catch you you will have a 3 yr ban IF we don't catch you again..oh yeah please say your sorry to all the single accounts that you cheated while you were playing... We at Stars know that shit happens and it's ok EVENTUALLY..

 

Originally Posted by Spaceh0g

 

Originally Posted by CynicdarK

 

Originally Posted by rivverkiller

 

Originally Posted by jokerswild

 

Originally Posted by brsavage

I think it's a great move.

Zee is a great example of someone truly being apologetic and making amends by being contrite and staying out of trouble.

Zee being reinstated is a win/win for Stars. It shows they take the issue serious enough to ban someone for a lenghty time, but they can also show compassion and reinstate an account if the person shows true remorse and does right.

gl

So how is the random cheater clearing or proving himself to be worthy of stars forgiveness? Posting I'm sorry threads and saying I was wrong? I guess you need a sponsership deal with another crooked outfit and play there for a while. This is a fuckin joke Stars.... He may be a nice guy and good at poker but HE STILL CHEATED!!! Next everyone's rooting for Russ Hamilton on UB

Yeah you're right...everyone in prison deserves a life sentence too imo. He'll never learn if you give him a second chance...vigilence is needed.

LoL they do have bans that are month long week long year long... But MAing is considered LIFE BAN on every site... So no he does not deserve to come back regardless if he has stopped or not. I could go out and kill a person and get life, get let out for good behavior and sure I probably won't kill anyone else but does that make it ok for me to be let out early?

[ ] murder and MA'ing on a poker site are comparable

In Comparison yes they are... Murder = Life in Prison, MAing has always = LIFEBAN on Poker sites... So yes extremely Comparable...

 

Originally Posted by BudmansCom

I wish nothing but the best for Justin Bonomo. I consider him one the greatest poker minds, and one of the classiest guys out there.

I have been following Justin's poker since before he was caught multiaccounting. I visit his webpage and read all his blogs. I am sure he was sorry and even set up 5% to go to charity. I enjoy watching his success "live". BUT he cheated no matter how you slice it and should have a lifetime ban from the site he cheated. Not everyone gives a shit about him or how nice or cool he is they were cheated period.. I guess this should open the flood gates for other multi accounters to get their accounts back and HOPE they are as stand up as ZeeJustin..

 

Originally Posted by BudmansCom

I wish nothing but the best for Justin Bonomo. I consider him one the greatest poker minds, and one of the classiest guys out there.

lol...besides all the people who aren't cheaters?

I'm undecided on exactly how I feel about this but I find it funny that everyone on this site always says to me "ZOMG HOW CAN YOU PLAY ON UB THEY ARE CHEATERS" yet very few people seem to have a problem with this ruling.

what constitutes "good behaviour"?

imo stayed banned, but as a low stakes players it doesnt really effect me playing.

 

Originally Posted by TMLMS13

what constitutes "good behaviour"?

imo stayed banned, but as a low stakes players it doesnt really effect me playing.

Yes it does ,it tells everyone low limit players included ,that IF you cheat by multiaccounting it is not a life ban..At some point Stars will say it is ok you have done your time.. And to the other poster I have followed since the begininning and still follow ZeeJustin, and still feel like Stars should have lifebanned him as a cheater.. I am sure there are many cheaters that got caught that wished they didn't and feel bad now...

 

Originally Posted by Limo Wreck

Wow I see a lot of ignorance in this thread. Welcome to the internet.
ZeeJustin is an example of a poker player that can find redemption in this community. He has done it by being open and honest since his transgression. He has contributed much to the poker community in the form of theory and advice. He has aligned himself with reputable figures in the community and has portrayed a respectable image.

I believe in no way does this open the door to reinstating other cheaters without them first living up to the standard of redemption that ZeeJustin has set. And that is by no means an easy standard to live up to.

Having created the reputation he now has, and making himself a high profile figure in the poker community has put him in a position where he has far more to lose by cheating than he could ever hope to gain. And I think he is intelligent and mature enough to realize and live by this.

Great post. Agriid.

 

Originally Posted by AFink93

Well they better let Josh and everyone else who did this back on their site as well. Just because ZeeJustin is friends with KidPoker and had some decent results live doesnt take away from what he did.. Stars definatly dropped the ball here.

Im pretty sure Justin didn't multi account on PS. Which probably weighed on their decision to let him play there. I guess it was a preventative measure to ban him in the first place for violating rules of a competing poker site, which I can see them wanting to protect their integrity...but I thought it was harsh since he did nothing wrong on their site. Correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW I support their decision here

 

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

 

Originally Posted by AFink93

Well they better let Josh and everyone else who did this back on their site as well. Just because ZeeJustin is friends with KidPoker and had some decent results live doesnt take away from what he did.. Stars definatly dropped the ball here.

Im pretty sure Justin didn't multi account on PS. Which probably weighed on their decision to let him play there. I guess it was a preventative measure to ban him in the first place for violating rules of a competing poker site, which I can see them wanting to protect their integrity...but I thought it was harsh since he did nothing wrong on their site. Correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW I support their decision here

I will correct you Mikey.. From the article.

February 26th, 2006, Lee Jones, then the PokerStars Poker Room Manager, announced on TwoPlusTwo that Bonomo had been "playing multiple accounts in several tournaments at PokerStars." Money was taken from his account and used to pay back "players who were harmed by his actions in those same tournaments."

 

Originally Posted by AFink93

 

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I will correct you Mikey.. From the article.

February 26th, 2006, Lee Jones, then the PokerStars Poker Room Manager, announced on TwoPlusTwo that Bonomo had been "playing multiple accounts in several tournaments at PokerStars." Money was taken from his account and used to pay back "players who were harmed by his actions in those same tournaments."

i never read that. Void everything I said.

 

Originally Posted by jetsjets1028

 

Originally Posted by Jennifear

 

Originally Posted by AFink93

Im actually quite shocked brsavage and Jenn are in support of this.. You guys are supposed to be the moral conscience of the site.

Don't get me wrong. I don't condone cheating.

The reason that I am in support of this move is because I also believe that Pokerstars has sufficient reason to believe that the 2009 version of ZeeJustin doesn't condone cheating either.

I have a serious problem with Pokerstars issuing a LIFETIME ban and then changing their mind.

They have set a very dangerous precedent and to me it undermines their security since I'm sure they aren't going to issue a press release every time they decide to reinstate someone.

I personally think that once someone makes the choice to cheat, he/she is FAR more likely to do it in the future. ESPECIALLY when the supposed consequences are no longer written in stone.

Let's give him a break.. He is a great pokermind and plays top notch poker live. It was a mistake to cheat everyone on PS for so long. I am sure if he didn't get caught he would have admitted it to the poker world and made restitution when he grew up. I expect to see apologies from many great poker players in the future each with checks in their hand.. I have changed my position GLAD to have him back...

 

Originally Posted by AFink93

Im actually quite shocked brsavage and Jenn are in support of this.. You guys are supposed to be the moral conscience of the site.

First, I have never proclaimed to be the moral conscience of this site. Once upon a time I used to try and give advice to players who I thought were in need of wisdom of someone who has been down the same road, but I don't bother with that anymore as young players don't want advice, and I can appreciate and understand that.

All that aside, I've made a ton of mistakes in my lifetime. I still believe that cheaters need to be punished severely, but we have to make good decisions about whether someone is a permanent blemish on the poker community or someone who did wrong and is truly apologetic.

Zee Justin made one mistake and has been clean since.

JJ Prodigy is basically a career criminal at a very young age, and moreover he has shown no true remorse. His brazen disrespect for the players in the community is fairly evident by his repeated multi accounting escapades, and even moreso with his constant attempts to beat the system through not only his own multiple accounts but also by staking and controlling the accounts of other players - he simply has proven he is not to be trusted.

Zee was banned from the site for a long time and was publicly humiliated. Unlike JJ Prodigy who repeatedly tried to find ways to manipulate and defraud the community, Zee kept his nose clean and has been contrite.

Also, Zee broke the terms of service of the sites regarding multi accounting before it became a big controversy. He still readily admitted his wrong doing and has done what most would deem an excellent job of owning up to his mistakes.

JJ Prodigy not only multi accounted repeatedly, he did so after having the benefit of seeing and hearing a plethora of discussion and statements by the sites regarding MA'ing, so he clearly knew what the consequences were - he just didn't care.

My personal opinion is Stars completely dropped the ball when they caught him the last time and banned several players who were staked by him including Mantis account which had a huge score in one of the WCOOP events.

They allowed these players who KNOWINGLY did business with a banned player, who KNOWINGLY allowed him access to their accounts to keep all their cash. Letting JJ profit in any way from online poker is beyond acceptable.

I voiced my displeasure to Stars in writing, but the simple fact of the matter is they probably didn't want to deal with the hassle and headache of reconstructing who was due what funds.

I personally was cheated out of tens of thousands of dollars, including one 1K mtt at Stars that JJ used one of his phony purchased accounts to finish 2nd and I finished 3rd.

If you recall correctly, the next week JJ was then issuing yet another apology statement and declared he was broke - even though Stars let him and his banned cohorts cash out hundreds of thousands of dollars stolen from the community just a week before - and, for the record, his staked players were all laughing at us as they entered multiple tournaments at the WSOPE.

Not even a close comparison between the two, and I think reinstating Zee makes perfect sense and was a good decision.

I understand that Zee is not in the same boat (or even ocean) as JJ but can you please explain why its Ok for Stars to issue a lifetime ban and then rescind it.

I think they have a moral obligation to mete out the punishment they threaten all of us with every day if we violate this golden rule of online poker.

This is not about Zee Justin, this is about Pokerstars.