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s1nnr
will stab you
Posts: 9,581
Joined: Mar 07Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:13pm) in reply to N 82 50 24
this is retarded, he cheated, and the rules say, if u cheat, u are banned...
this is the same BS that andymcleod can play just because they are big names...
if a small time player broke the rules, there is NOOOOOOO way they would let him back... i know of a few kids that played underage, and they will NEVER get back on stars....
THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!! just b/c u guys are freinds with him, or whatever, doesnt make it right, unless they let every banned player that hasnt cheated since their ban play again...
fucking politics! SO FUCKING GAY! -
s1nnr
will stab you
Posts: 9,581
Joined: Mar 07Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:18pm) in reply to Jennifear
this will be one of the few times i DISAGREE with jennifear...Originally Posted by Jennifear
I'm 100% behind this move. Security is a priority at pokerstars, and I believe that they would not allow this to happen if they had reason to believe that he was still a threat.
GL at the tables Justin
are they gonna monitor everyone that cheated at one point, or just the people that are freinds with pokerstars pros? fuck this, this is one of the most redic things ive seen in a long long time, and i cant believe that all u people are behind him -
Posts: 159
Joined: Feb 08Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:19pm) in reply to AFink93
Wow, now stars reinstates the worst cheaters. He is friends with Daniel and other players so that makes it ok I guess. Are they gonna reinstate all other cheaters???
What a horrible move, setting an awful precedent. I can't believe all the clowns defending this move, do you people not know right from wrong??? He deserves lifetime ban. BAD MOVE STARS. -
s1nnr
will stab you
Posts: 9,581
Joined: Mar 07Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:20pm) in reply to IBGrindin
what the fuck does this have to do with JJ? its not like they were trying to decide which cheater they wanted back, and landed on zeejustin b/c he seems like a swell guy.... they just know that pstars pros are freinds with him. THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHITOriginally Posted by IBGrindin
Originally Posted by sandler1860
I am ok with this, dude has admitted his wrongdoings and hasnt cheated since. ZJ is nothing like JJ. Welcome back, Justin.
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Posts: 23,104
Joined: Jan 06Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:20pm) in reply to s1nnr
Well, it's just the way things work I suppose.Originally Posted by s1nnr
this is retarded, he cheated, and the rules say, if u cheat, u are banned...
this is the same BS that andymcleod can play just because they are big names...
if a small time player broke the rules, there is NOOOOOOO way they would let him back... i know of a few kids that played underage, and they will NEVER get back on stars....
THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!! just b/c u guys are freinds with him, or whatever, doesnt make it right, unless they let every banned player that hasnt cheated since their ban play again...
fucking politics! SO FUCKING GAY!
Look at Guy Laliberte, David Benyamine, and Patrik Antonius on FTP. -
Posts: 15,005
Joined: Sep 06Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:21pm) in reply to N 82 50 24
There are very few things that poker sites can do to punish cheaters. The most severe (but appropriate) punishment is to seize their funds. Financial punishment is their strongest weapon.
If Justin has rehabilitated (and I believe he has), then I believe that he should provide PokerStars with a monetary bond. Very simply - if he were to ever cheat again he loses his bond (plus whatever funds are in his account). He only gets that money back if/when he closes his account.
In addition to this, he should have the following restrictions on his account: no transfers (both to or from anyone), and he must play from only one IP address or provide them with an explanation as to why he is not playing at his home IP.
These provisions are not specific to Justin - but could apply to anyone who has received a lifetime ban for whatever reason.
He (or any other cheaters) cannot simply walk out of jail for free without some level of probation associated with their activities. -
Does anyone think that this would have happened if Lee was still running things?
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s1nnr
will stab you
Posts: 9,581
Joined: Mar 07Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:24pm) in reply to Limo Wreck
i see alot of ignorance in ur post...Originally Posted by Limo Wreck
Wow I see a lot of ignorance in this thread. Welcome to the internet.
ZeeJustin is an example of a poker player that can find redemption in this community. He has done it by being open and honest since his transgression. He has contributed much to the poker community in the form of theory and advice. He has aligned himself with reputable figures in the community and has portrayed a respectable image.
I believe in no way does this open the door to reinstating other cheaters without them first living up to the standard of redemption that ZeeJustin has set. And that is by no means an easy standard to live up to.
Having created the reputation he now has, and making himself a high profile figure in the poker community has put him in a position where he has far more to lose by cheating than he could ever hope to gain. And I think he is intelligent and mature enough to realize and live by this.
this move pretty much says, break the rules, get banned, hang out with the right people, and we will let u back in... great precedent, Pokerstars -
Posts: 289
Joined: Mar 05Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:39pm) in reply to AFink93
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=P5_Quote_Author>
brsavage:</TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I think it's a great move.
Zee is a great example of someone truly being apologetic and making amends by being contrite and staying out of trouble.
Zee being reinstated is a win/win for Stars. It shows they take the issue serious enough to ban someone for a lenghty time, but they can also show compassion and reinstate an account if the person shows true remorse and does right.
gl
^^^^ THIS - BR with the voice of reason and compassion.
I talked with Justin after the whole collusion and banning. I don't condone his behavior one bit or his first response to why he did what he did. Like a man he owned up and reposted a better response devoid of the bruised and defensive ego he obviously wrote from in the first one.
We did an interview and he shared some very personal things about his time after all this occured. Very dark stuff, as poker was such a huge part of his life. And after meeting with him I felt that he was really heartfelt and honestly regretted his actions to the core of his being.
Since that interview he has gone on to be an example of grace under pressure in live play and has proven a very talented player on the live circuit.
I second BR's words above. -
Posts: 3,147
Joined: Jun 08Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:44pm) in reply to brikdog24
^^^Originally Posted by brikdog24
not like he hasnt been playing the whole time on a diff name anyway..whats the diff -
Let's all try and get our points across in a mature and respectful way that doesn't include namecalling, cursing, typing in all caps, etc. I'm personally looking forward to hearing everyone's opinions on this issue, and I'd hate to have a good, interesting, and productive thread ruined by people typing curse words in caps over and over and calling each other morons.
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Posts: 763
Joined: Nov 06Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:46pm) in reply to AFink93
its more like you went totally in the minority on this on purpose just to voice an opposing side and look like you are morally sound. however what i said is a fact and totally unarguable, stars deemed zeejustin's behavior redeemable over the past 3 years and that is why they unbanned him. jjprodigy however has been constantly breaking stars' rules since the incident. so apparently that is where the line is drawn. of course if he hadnt had any live scores or known people connected with stars then he wouldn't have ever been unbanned. however he has made a good name for himself and made good friends with and earned the trust of people who stars as a company respect and trust. That obviously counts for something. and fwiw i have never spoken 1 word with zeejustin or travelled the live circuit ever or even am friends with anyone who is close friends with zeejustin. This situation is just pretty obvious and it seems like you are playing the part of devil's advocate for reasons unassociated with the topic.Originally Posted by AFink93
I knew I would be totally in the minority about this.. Because your all friends with him. But what he did is supposedly the death sentence of online poker.. Akin to gambling on baseball. (Pete Rose) But your going to let him play 3 years later just because he has alot of friends in the community now.. Where do you draw the line? Which guys do you let back on the site? Its not right to let Stars pick and choose who the perceived good guys are to who the bad guys are. You know for a fact that Justin will not do this again? Why is that? Because he has some good live results.. Being good at poker doenst make you a good or bad person.. I dont know Justin never met him. So I have no clue.. So maybe you can all enlighten me on how he would deserve reinstatement from a lifetime ban over anyone else.Originally Posted by stpauli111
this is pretty far off base as the main reason that pokerstars unbanned zeejustin is bc of what they deemed to be "good behavior" since his incident. the same can hardly be said to be true for jjprodigy.Originally Posted by AFink93
Well they better let Josh and everyone else who did this back on their site as well. Just because ZeeJustin is friends with KidPoker and had some decent results live doesnt take away from what he did.. Stars definatly dropped the ball here.
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Bottom line is that it is Stars call to reinstate a cheater and our call if we want to play with them... The only difference is now I know they let multi accounters back in..
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Posts: 14,109
Joined: Mar 06Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:53pm) in reply to stpauli111
This is not just about Justin and Josh. Its about everyone.. Those two are obv at the forefront of the whole issue because everyone here knows who they are and their story. But Im pretty sure there are alot more people than those two who received similiar life bans.. Who is to say who is worthy of this and who isnt? My comments are not a comparision of Josh and Justin.. You guys have proved the difference.. Its the the big picture.. Its allowing people who have committed the ultimate taboo in terms of online poker to again play on the site..Originally Posted by stpauli111
its more like you went totally in the minority on this on purpose just to voice an opposing side and look like you are morally sound. however what i said is a fact and totally unarguable, stars deemed zeejustin's behavior redeemable over the past 3 years and that is why they unbanned him. jjprodigy however has been constantly breaking stars' rules since the incident. so apparently that is where the line is drawn. of course if he hadnt had any live scores or known people connected with stars then he wouldn't have ever been unbanned. however he has made a good name for himself and made good friends with and earned the trust of people who stars as a company respect and trust. That obviously counts for something. and fwiw i have never spoken 1 word with zeejustin or travelled the live circuit ever or even am friends with anyone who is close friends with zeejustin. This situation is just pretty obvious and it seems like you are playing the part of devil's advocate for reasons unassociated with the topic.Originally Posted by AFink93
I knew I would be totally in the minority about this.. Because your all friends with him. But what he did is supposedly the death sentence of online poker.. Akin to gambling on baseball. (Pete Rose) But your going to let him play 3 years later just because he has alot of friends in the community now.. Where do you draw the line? Which guys do you let back on the site? Its not right to let Stars pick and choose who the perceived good guys are to who the bad guys are. You know for a fact that Justin will not do this again? Why is that? Because he has some good live results.. Being good at poker doenst make you a good or bad person.. I dont know Justin never met him. So I have no clue.. So maybe you can all enlighten me on how he would deserve reinstatement from a lifetime ban over anyone else.Originally Posted by stpauli111
this is pretty far off base as the main reason that pokerstars unbanned zeejustin is bc of what they deemed to be "good behavior" since his incident. the same can hardly be said to be true for jjprodigy.Originally Posted by AFink93
Well they better let Josh and everyone else who did this back on their site as well. Just because ZeeJustin is friends with KidPoker and had some decent results live doesnt take away from what he did.. Stars definatly dropped the ball here.
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Posts: 1,003
Joined: Jun 07Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 6:56pm) in reply to s1nnr
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and interpretation of the situation. I believe our difference of opinion rests on our philosophical difference.Originally Posted by s1nnr
i see alot of ignorance in ur post...Originally Posted by Limo Wreck
Wow I see a lot of ignorance in this thread. Welcome to the internet.
ZeeJustin is an example of a poker player that can find redemption in this community.
this move pretty much says, break the rules, get banned, hang out with the right people, and we will let u back in... great precedent, Pokerstars
I believe in redemption. If a person has done wrong, I believe they can correct their mistakes and show a genuine, sincere desire to do right again. For these people I can forgive their wrong doings if I believe they have changed for the better, taken responsibility for their actions, and learned from their mistakes. I would hope that if I were to do wrong that I could redeem myself in such a way, because god knows I've made many mistakes.
Many cheaters will never live up to this criteria, and for them the punishment should fit the crime.
My interpretation of what you are saying is "Once you've done wrong you cannot correct your mistake and will never be redeemed in the eyes of those you have wronged." If your philosophy differs from this, please enlighten me. -
Posts: 1,920
Joined: Aug 05Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:15pm) in reply to AFink93
1) Who is to say who is worthy? I think that is Stars, they say Justin has redeemed himself, and anyone that knows him knows he's redeemed himself.Originally Posted by AFink93
Who is to say who is worthy of this and who isnt? My comments are not a comparision of Josh and Justin.. You guys have proved the difference.. Its the the big picture.. Its allowing people who have committed the ultimate taboo in terms of online poker to again play on the site..
2) You do realize it wasn't the ultimate taboo when he got caught. A huge number of people were doing it at the same time (not to say that it was right, I'm just stating a fact) and Justin was the brunt of the fury when people started considering these issues of ethics in online poker. -
Posts: 14,109
Joined: Mar 06Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:18pm) in reply to MrTimCaum
I guess I cant expect you to be against this move Steven since you are sitting at his house as we speak. OH well.Originally Posted by MrTimCaum
1) Who is to say who is worthy? I think that is Stars, they say Justin has redeemed himself, and anyone that knows him knows he's redeemed himself.Originally Posted by AFink93
Who is to say who is worthy of this and who isnt? My comments are not a comparision of Josh and Justin.. You guys have proved the difference.. Its the the big picture.. Its allowing people who have committed the ultimate taboo in terms of online poker to again play on the site..
2) You do realize it wasn't the ultimate taboo when he got caught. A huge number of people were doing it at the same time (not to say that it was right, I'm just stating a fact) and Justin was the brunt of the fury when people started considering these issues of ethics in online poker. -
Posts: 74
Joined: Mar 07Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:24pm) in reply to bbbbb33
brick and morter,the only safe haven
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zander
anomaly in his crotch
Posts: 5,708
Joined: Dec 06Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:25pm) in reply to bbbbb33
chances are more than 70% believe that you, sir, are an idiot
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Posts: 86
Joined: Oct 05Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:31pm) in reply to N 82 50 24
The reason I don't think this is a good idea is that Pokerstars is sending the message that you can cheat, get caught, and you just have to be patient, and you will eventually be allowed to play again.
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Posts: 74
Joined: Mar 07Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:32pm) in reply to bbbbb33
another stat,80% of the cheaters are college kids and high school punks
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Posts: 150
Joined: Dec 05Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:32pm) in reply to bbbbb33
so you don't believe in giving people a second chance to prove themselves. ZeeJustin did something wrong and paid the price, but given up all of his money on the sites and being banned for 3 years. I am sure that you have done something in the past that was probably not right and given a 2nd chance.
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im sorry adam, this just gets me realllllllly angry, ill try to refrain from cursing
Originally Posted by Adam
Let's all try and get our points across in a mature and respectful way that doesn't include namecalling, cursing, typing in all caps, etc. I'm personally looking forward to hearing everyone's opinions on this issue, and I'd hate to have a good, interesting, and productive thread ruined by people typing curse words in caps over and over and calling each other morons.
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Jennifear
Moderator
Posts: 10,201
Joined: Nov 05Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:35pm) in reply to bbbbb33
Obviously this stems from the Zeejustin poll.
yyyyy, I have no idea how you jump from "okay to let a banned player who has shown sincerity and proven himself over a lengthy time period back onto a poker site" and "okay to cheat"
That's quite a huge leap. -
Posts: 1,610
Joined: Dec 08Apr 2nd, 2009 (4/2/2009 7:36pm) in reply to bbbbb33
I voted that I agree with his reinstatement. That in no term should be taken that I support cheating. There is a thing called forgiveness, and if one pays his/her penalty, then they should be forgiven. If they reinstated him after 6 months, I would not agree with the reinstatement, but after 3 years, I think he has been punished enough and should be allowed to play again. Please don't use stats out of context, as it can be misleading
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fwiw
justin played battleship next to me at pca... he was "battleship A". in the second round i played some dude "whassssuuppp" who apparently was logged into his stars account from his room. so he was 'battleship b'.... in conclusion, beating the battleships is near impossble.
welcome back zj and be sure to collect your 1k from waco for OBAMA
oh and whats his ftp name?
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