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2012, too soon?

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  1. tacoman98 tacoman98 is offline

    Tacoma, WA
    United States

    Posts: 298
    Joined: Nov 07

    Jun 7th, 2009 (6/7/2009 3:34pm)

    I've PM'ed TE for his views but I guess I'll open it up for anyone else who may have advise.
    1st, I know that we need to keep pressure on todays politicians and let our views be heard. TE is doing great things here, and PPA membership is critical right now.

    As a conservative, I am deeply dissappointed in the direction of the Republicans during the past 8 to 12 years. They have done everything to appease the Religious Right and have left many of our core beliefs in the dirt. Individual freedoms are being stomped on. Government spending is out of control. They truly are looking like a new breed of Democrat when it comes to both the size of government and spending.

    Many conservatives are fighting to re-establish the conservative base. But I want to know if it's time to let the party fail and switch alliance to the Libertarians. They are not perfect, but are much more aligned with fiscal conservatives, fighting for a reduced government, and fighting for individual rights with a live and let live attitude.

    Obviously switching parties will be akin to throwing votes away in the short term (that short term could be decades), but we may need to become politically militant to stand up for our rights.

    Are there any Republicans that A) are electable, B) can rally the base, C) stifle the holier than thou attitudes of the extreme right, and D) set us back on the correct path? - OR - Is it time to abandon the party and look to the long term future?

    The answers to those questions will determine who's campain I'm going to get behind. And if the answer is to leave the party, the sooner the better as we would have a lot of work to do.

    **As I am disabled and extremely bored, I am planning to get very active in regards to both poker players rights and conservative activism. If anyone wants or needs specific assistance on these issues, please feel free to contact me. I have no money but a lot of free time.**
  2. TheEngineer TheEngineer is online now Rich Muny - PPA Board VP

    KY
    United States

    Posts: 2,830
    Joined: Nov 07

    Jun 7th, 2009 (6/7/2009 5:09pm) in reply to tacoman98

    I'm a conservative as well. In fact, I have a conservative poker blog at http://poker.townhall.com. If you like it, you can Twitter a message on it. Just click here.

    I can't provide a definitive answer to your question, of course, but I can share my opinion. I do believe the GOP can return to its limited government roots. IMO, small "L" libertarian conservatives should focus on this. IMO its VERY important for us to respond whenever big government types within the GOP claim to speak for all of us. We can write, blog, Twitter, write to Congress, write letters to newspapers, and many other things to advocate for this position.

    I don't believe voting Libertarian is akin to throwing one's vote away. Each major party knows it has around 40% of the electorate in the bag. Both put on big shows to play to their base, but in reality the parties are competing for the remaining 20%, as that's where the margin of victory is. Rightly or wrongly, the GOP sees Libertarian votes as votes that would otherwise be theirs. A decent showing could help push the GOP our way. Telling was the GOP attitude toward voting Libertarian prior the election -- "voting Libertarian is a wasted vote" -- vs. the attitude after the election, which was basically, "the party doesn't want Libertarian values -- they only got 0.5% of the vote in the last presidential election." I believe the GOP needs to feel pressure from its libertarian flank, much as it does from it social conservative one.

    Ron Paul faced a similar dilemma a few years ago and decided to stay in the GOP to work for change. He made a different decision 20 years ago, when he was the 1988 Libertarian candidate for president, so he's seen this issue from many sides. I think he's correct. I plan to stay a Republican, but will vote against GOP statists (I voted for Ron Paul in the GOP primary and Libertarian Bob Barr for president).

    As for candidates, PPA has a voters guide at www.congressionalpoker.com that you may find helpful and informative.
     
  3. JPFisher55 JPFisher55 is offline

    Saint Louis, MO
    United States

    Posts: 28
    Joined: Dec 07

    Jun 7th, 2009 (6/7/2009 8:15pm) in reply to TheEngineer

    I'm a pessimist. I left the GOP in July 2006. I do not believe that the GOP will come back to its small government, individual freedom and personal responsibility principles. I have two reasons for my beliefs.

    One, too many Americans no longer believe in these principles. Sen. Thompson said in a Republican 2008 Presidential debate that the entitlement programs must be shrunk and Americans need to take responsibility for their retirement and financial affairs. I was listening on Fox News. One of its pollsters interviewed people who had watched the debate. All of them said that Sen. Thompson just did not appeal to them or excite them. They were obviously not prepared to listen to the truth about the fiscal state of the US government. Politicians want to get elected over everything else, including standing on principles. Republicans are politicians first and conservatives second.

    Two, the religious right is too big a part of the Republican base, very extreme (example is the recent murder of a doctor practicing abortions after being threatened many times) and does too much electioneering for the GOP.

    The only hope that true conservatives have is that the economy in the US gets so bad that many people realize that big government does not work and decide to abandon the Democrats and the GOP. It's a long shot. The more likely outcome is the end of the United States of America that I grew up in.

    I just hope that we can attain legal online poker in the meantime.
  4. TheEngineer TheEngineer is online now Rich Muny - PPA Board VP

    KY
    United States

    Posts: 2,830
    Joined: Nov 07

    Jun 7th, 2009 (6/7/2009 8:36pm) in reply to JPFisher55

    Great comments JP.
     
  5. tacoman98 tacoman98 is offline

    Tacoma, WA
    United States

    Posts: 298
    Joined: Nov 07

    Jun 8th, 2009 (6/8/2009 1:05am) in reply to JPFisher55

    totally agree, JP. Have you moved to the libertarians or given up all hope? Certainly hope it's not the latter as it sounds as though you are genouinely (sp?) passionate about the issue.
    Thread Starter
  6. TheEngineer TheEngineer is online now Rich Muny - PPA Board VP

    KY
    United States

    Posts: 2,830
    Joined: Nov 07

    Jun 8th, 2009 (6/8/2009 1:24am) in reply to tacoman98

    2008 Libertarian VP candidate Wayne Allyn Root has a nice article on this very topic. He was kind enough to let me run it in my blog, at http://poker.blogtownhall.com/2009/0...g__poker.thtml.

    <h2> The Issue That Destroyed the GOP: Online Gaming & Poker </h2>
    Wayne Allyn Root
    May 16, 2009

    I am asked constantly by talk show hosts across the USA why I left the GOP and became the leader of a national Libertarian movement for smaller government and economic and personal freedom. Nothing could symbolize my bold decision more than the issue of online poker and gaming. It was only 5 years ago that Republicans controlled every level of government from Congress, to the U.S. Senate, to the Presidency, to a majority of Governorships, and even a majority of state legislatures. Now they control NOTHING. Now Democrats control every one of those same levels of government. The Republican brand went from wildly popular to poison. Amazingly, Republicans haven't a clue how it happened. Worse, they're digging the hole deeper. I believe the meltdown of the GOP all started and crystallized with the Republican-led ban on online poker and gaming. Once again, this issue is roaring back to life to haunt the GOP. It may be the final death-blow......
     
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