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Well said Skall!
Originally Posted by Skallagrim
Thanks to all of you who are joining and writing letters. They really do make a difference, and as TE has said, if we can get all or nearly all poker players to stand up for their rights, we will win this battle.
To give you some examples, let me tell you about 2 situations. Last year in Mass. the Governor proposed a casino bill that included a provision making playing online poker a crime (a felony even!). The Local PPA and the national PPA got together and launched a very vocal opposition campaign. Ultimately the bill was defeated by a close margin. Poker player opposition was well recognized as a big part of that result, so much so that when new bills regarding casinos and"racinos" were introduced this year which included similar language against online poker, all the PPA had to do was contact the sponsors and they said "oops" and immediately took that language out of their bills.
Just recently, Minnesota authorities sent a letter to ISPs demanding that they block access to internet poker sites. The PPA sent out alerts to its members (and its lawyers) and raised a huge outcry. That public outcry was well heard, and the Minnesota authorities acknowledged that they had no idea online poker had so much support. They further acknowledged that that public outcry was the single biggest factor in their decision to drop the whole thing and withdraw their letter to the ISPs.
Your voice does make a difference. Keep up the good work.
Skallagrim
Thanks again for your invaluable contributions to the effort. -
Sent letter to Congress, joined PPA, and following TheEngineer on Twitter. Thank you TE.
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I'm also posting info on my blog at http://poker.townhall.com. Perhaps you'll find the blog interesting.
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irs (feds) does get a huge chunk its called income tax.
Originally Posted by timfbmx
I really hope the fact that Obama plays poker will help us out on this one. I'm sure the president understands that poker is a game of skill and it doesn't belong in the same catagory as BJ, Roulette, Craps, and slot machines. We play against people not machines or casinos. Obama understands that, I hope. Fuck the feds they just don't want us making all this money without them getting a huge chunk. FUCK THE FEDS!

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Sent letters to Congress and the President. Will make my next blog post on this subject matter. I will make an effort to be more active in the Poker Legislation forum.
Thanks Engineer, good to have someone like you on our side. -
Thanks for the compliment, and thanks a lot more for making the commitment.
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letter sent. thank you for all of your hard work, can't wait for the day that you go down in history as the guy who got it done for us :)
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this may be a stupid question, but if our congressman is already a huge activist is there a point in calling?
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Great question. The answer is.....absolutely! They need to know their constituents are behind them and are thankful for their support. This will encourage them to work harder for us.
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From a PL thread on this issue:
It's definitely an interesting situation for us and, as you noted, it's clear that PPA is definitely showing a lot of strength. I look forward to seeing how this all plays out.Originally Posted by JPFisher55
It is becoming more likely than not that the DOJ is behind these payment processing issues since another source Pokerati (see 2+2 thread) is confirming this fact. If so, their action is much more likely to be based on their interpretation of the Wire Act that it covers online poker and all online gambling. Not only are the UIGEA regulations not yet binding on banks, but they do not define unlawful Internet gambling. Thus, any action by the DOJ cannot be based solely on the UIGEA.
If the DOJ is behind this, then I have some questions.
1. Are leftover Bush administration attorneys in the Southern District of NY solely responsible for this escalation or does this mean that the Obama administration intends to continue the Bush War on Online Gambling?
2. What good would delaying the UIGEA regulations do if the DOJ is testing the scope of the Wire Act?
3. If this is official Obama adminstration policy, then what are the prospects for any favorable bills becoming law?
And I have a comment if the DOJ has taken court action to freeze a bank account of a payment processor that only serves online poker sites and no online sports betting sites.
This action shows that the PPA is gaining strength and its opponents are afraid that it may succeed in getting regulation and licensing of online gambling passed. Thus, they are forcing the PPA's hand by forcing the issue into court. This is a desperate step because if a federal court enjoins their action and rules that the Wire Act does not cover online poker, then the DOJ is bound and the PPA does not need legislation like Rep. Franks' bill. Of course, the opposite is true. If the DOJ succeeds and a federal court rules that the Wire Act covers online poker, the PPA, US online poker players and their sites are in real trouble. Litigation is all or nothing. Legislation is about compromise. Interesting that our opponents have decided not to compromise, but has decided to risk all or nothing when the only legal precedent is against them and they are the underdogs in court.
I am proud to be a premium member of the PPA. Good work PPA and especially TE, thank you very much.
Thanks for the kind words, and thank you for your work towards our liberties as well. -
Letter I finally got back from my congressman below:
Dear Mike,
<span><span>Thank you for contacting me regarding Internet gambling. I appreciate hearing from you.</span></span>
<span> </span>
<span> <span>I certainly understand your desire for law-abiding adults to be able to participate in real-money gaming activities such as Poker over the internet. As you may know, for political expediency, social conservatives in the House Republican Leadership included the <span id="lw_1244439753_0">Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement</span> Act (UIGEA) of 2006 into another bill, the Security and <span id="lw_1244439753_1">Accountability</span> For Every Port (SAFE Port) Act of 2006. The primary function of the <span id="lw_1244439753_2">SAFE Port Act</span> had been to take much-needed steps in addressing our national security needs regarding customs and border security. I would have preferred to consider the issue of Internet Gambling separately from the issue of <span id="lw_1244439753_3">Port Security</span>, but unfortunately all House members were denied that opportunity by the previous House Leadership in 2006. Coming from the <span id="lw_1244439753_4">Puget Sound</span> where we have several high-volume commercial ports, passage of the SAFE Port act was critically important for our region.</span></span>
<span> </span>
<span> <span>For now, the Treasury Department's proposed changes to financial reporting requirements and additional transaction blocking requirements under the <span id="lw_1244439753_5">Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act</span> of 2006 have not yet been implemented. According to a proposal by the <span id="lw_1244439753_6">Treasury Department</span> in December 2007, these requirements are being enacted slowly because some bank transfers, such as those by check, would be difficult to block because of the challenge of knowing whether internet gambling is actually illegal in the state or jurisdiction of the person sending the funds.</span></span>
<span> </span>
<span> <span>As you know, H.R. </span><span>2267, the </span><span>Internet Gambling Regulation, <span id="lw_1244439753_7">Consumer Protection</span>, and Enforcement Act</span><span>, would provide for regulations of lawful internet-based gaming and gambling services, along with provisions for problem gambling. H.R. 2267</span><span> has been referred to the House </span><span><span id="lw_1244439753_8">Financial Services Committee</span>, of which I am not a member. Please be assured that should the House consider legislation pertaining to Internet gambling in the future, I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind.</span></span>
<span> </span>
<span> <span>Please continue to contact me about the issues that concern you, as I both need and welcome your thoughts and ideas. I encourage you to contact me via email, telephone, or fax, because <span id="lw_1244439753_9">security measures</span> in the House cause delays in receiving postal mail. For more information on my activities in Congress, and for information on services that my office can provide, please visit my website at <span id="lw_1244439753_10">http://www.house.gov/inslee</span>. If you would like to subscribe to my email updates, please visit </span><span>http://www.house.gov/inslee/signup.htm</span><span>.</span></span>
Very truly yours,
<span id="lw_1244439753_11">JAY INSLEE</span>
<span id="lw_1244439753_12">Member of Congress</span> -
Long. Just some thoughts. Cliff notes at end.
I think we need a change of perspective for the next phase of this campaign.
The non-poker playing public knows nothing about the state of affairs regarding our cause, and if they do, its often misguided.
As it stands now, we're getting people that play poker on our side, and their closest loved ones (i.e. not necessarily their friends or outlying family). That's Step 1.
The next step will be the people that have no involvement whatsoever with poker, nor the laws surrounding it.
These people need to have a reason to care about this. I can tell you right now, that talking about poker doesn't do anything to get them to care. Think about talking to these people face to face. I can assure you that while you're talking, here are the thoughts running through their head (remember, it doesn't matter that they're wrong, it matters that we haven't educated them):
"Aren't you really a degen though?"
"Uh, right. Stick up for your right to have a gambling addiction."
"I can go anywhere I want to on the internet, don't see a problem."
"Click mouse, lose house."
"I wonder if he needs money or something."
"Will he please hurry up? Oprah is about to come on."
"What kind of family values do I have if I let my 14 year old play online poker?"
"Isn't poker 5 card draw? What do you mean skill?"
...and various other things.
Rather than delude ourselves into thinking this sector of the population will come around using our current methods is the reason why good causes fail after excellent starts.<span> </span>
I think it has to be narrowed down to the highest level concept possible, and presented in to different sectors of the non-poker playing population in a manner that they can relate to.<span> </span>Admittedly, this is difficult.<span> </span>But, where theres a will, theres a way, right?<span> </span>
Have you ever heard the term leading when it comes to persuasion, or discussion?<span> </span>Sometimes its intentional, and sometimes unintentional.<span> </span>
When the Poker Players Alliance tries to educate these people, there is unfortunately an unintentional lead.<span> </span>Immediately, they see Poker Players and they are lead to remembering every thing theyve ever heard about poker.<span> </span>
The whole time the speaker is talking, theyre thinking some of the things that I outlined above.<span> </span>Im not for a moment saying to get rid of the Poker Players Alliance.<span> </span>Im just saying that moving forward were going to need buffer groups that eventually lead the non-poker playing public to joining the PPA.<span> </span>
I think it should be in different population types.<span> </span>For example, Concerned Students for Online Freedom.<span> </span>Sounds cheesy, Im sure you can think of something better.<span> </span>But, the idea is that university students use the internet a lot.<span> </span>Finding a student that is NOT online would have to be rare.<span> </span>Talking to students about not letting this environment snowball into an infiltration of all of our online freedoms could work wonders.<span> </span>Poker wouldnt even have to be mentioned other than as part of the beginning of a negative ending.<span> </span>
The second group would be the middle agers.<span> </span>Professionals.<span> </span>Laborers.<span> </span>The working class.<span> </span>They would look at this from a money stand point.<span> </span>They pay a crap ton of taxes, and they dont see an end to it.<span> </span>They have some involvement with the moral sidebut for the most part, were going to have to let them take care of their kids.<span> </span>If asked about 14 year olds playing poker, we simply tell them that good parents find ways to prevent this.<span> </span>There are ways out there, and its not for us to do your parenting for you (but maybe we would present it in a more polite manner).<span> </span>
If they knew ways to increase tax revenue that are right under their noses, but are not being done by our government because of special interest groups, they would get pissed.<span> </span>Theyd begin to vote against politicians that arent interested in garnering new forms of tax revenue.<span> </span><span> </span>
This group would be Concerned Workers for lower taxes.<span> </span>Something less cheesy, I hope.<span> </span>The idea is that this group would talk about regulation of poker, amongst many other avenues of generating tax revenue.<span> </span>They would highlight politicians that are not on board with such ideas.<span> </span>
The last group would be the elderly.<span> </span>Typically, theyre concerned with money (being on a fixed income) and morals.<span> </span>Yes, even the ones that 30 square bingo or what have you.<span> </span>Bingo at a church is one thing; poker online (online?<span> </span>isnt that immoral already with all that pornography?) is a whole different story.<span> </span>
This group is hard because under no circumstances are they, in general, going to change their mind on anything.<span> </span>Why should they?<span> </span>I mean, if youve been around 60+ years, whos going to tell YOU to change your mind?<span> </span>
And, on this groupI have no clue how you would get to them.<span> </span>This is a further off phase, and hopefully we could cross that bridge at a later time.<span> </span>
To begin, we just have to get to Step 2.<span> </span>Step 1 has began, and will continue to be ran until all poker players, and their immediate loved ones are on board.<span> </span>Step 2 would be getting the university students involved that are part of the non-poker playing public.<span> </span>
Step 3 involves the middle aged people with either professional jobs, or hard full time, laborious jobs that pay fairly well.<span> </span>And, of course, step 4 would be the elderly.<span> </span>
All of these groups are voters.<span> </span>Of course, they are non-poker players (as defined from the very beginning) and they are a huge sector of the entire population.<span> </span>
I think this would take a long time to implement, but the best plans will often times take years.<span> </span>The damage done by the UIGEA will likely take years to undo anyhow, so I think its best to just get started now with long term planning.<span> </span>
Lastly, I could be leaving a sector out, but right now, I think you have to have focus and not bite off more than you can chew.<span> </span>
Cliff Notes:
- Most non-poker players let all of this go in one ear and out the other.
- Time to reach a wider voting audience. -
As long as Echecks isn't working? Do any of the prepaid visas still work?
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I've always done western union. it's there in minutes with the funds in your acct.
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Gotta love the $22 fee or what ever the hell it is. Exorbitant.
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Advance America reloadable card http://www.advanceamerica.net/
Super easy if you have location close to you. I think it costs like $2 to load the card. -
PokerStars does not cover the fee for Western Union deposits. You may also complete a deposit using a pre-paid card. Although pre-paid cards have become a popular deposit option for many players at PokerStars, there is a limited number of pre-paid cards that are working with us. One such card available in the US is the "All Access" pre-paid card.
You can buy "All Access" pre-paid cards at many local stores or gas stations. Please visit https://www.netspend.com/<wbr>account/index.m to see a list of locations near you where you can buy either a gift or re-loadable card (please keep in mind that All Access ATM cards will not work on our site).
The "All Access" re-loadable card charges up to $1.00 for purchases made with it. When depositing with a re-loadable card, please try for $1.00 less than the balance of the card to account for this charge. There is no charge for purchases made with the gift cards, but they have some fees you may need to consider for balances remaining, phone enquiries and others. To find out more about their fees please visit: https://www.allaccessgift.com/<wbr>gift/faq.m
****Important notice about the All Access reloadable cards****, please be aware that when you make a deposit using a prepaid reloadable card, the transactions are settled with your card issuer. This usually happens a few business days after the actual purchase was made; a second charge for the same amount may appear on your online statement, leaving one of the charges "On hold" for up to seven days for purchases under $100 and for up to thirty days for purchases over $100. This may occur even if the transaction is rejected.
For online gaming transactions NetSpend, the issuer company of these cards will not remove this hold until the hold expires. Please be aware that this is something out of our control and there is nothing we can do to facilitate the removal of held funds in such cases. Once the hold period expires, the funds will return automatically to your reloadable card balance.
Please keep in mind that in order to use these cards for online purchases they require activation, which can be done at the store, by calling the number on the back of the card or online at https://www.netspend.com/<wbr>account/activation.m. It will take around 30 minutes for the card to become active.
As we have no agreements with the financial institution that issue these cards, we cannot guarantee that they will continue working indefinitely. Such companies can implement restrictions for on-line gaming transactions without notice.
If you use such a card to make a deposit at PokerStars you will be able to withdraw funds through a Cashier's Check which will be sent according to your instructions.
Beginning June 1, PokerStars is giving you the chance to play as many "$300,000 Reload Freerolls" as you want by simply reloading your account.
Once you complete your deposit and enter the code "RF300", you will automatically be issued with a tournament ticket that will allow you to enter multiple daily freerolls. If you finish in the top 400 positions in one of the daily freerolls, you will win cash, plus entry into one of five June 28 finals.
There will be five freerolls daily from June 8th - 27th at 10:30, 13:30, 16:30, 19:30 and 22:30 ET; each with a prize pool of $2,000.
Follow this link for further details:
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For further deposit related assistance, please send your phone number and an appropriate time to call, to dad@pokerstars.com.
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Regards,
Gabriela
PokerStars Deposit Assistance Team -
MastaofKings, Have you had any problems with withdrawals via Western Union?
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Netspend Visa is a way I deposited a while back. I think that still works...
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