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HR 5767 Defeated in Committee

By Dan | Published Jun 25 2008, 02:16 PM

On Wednesday, the House Financial Services Committee, chaired by Congressman Barney Frank (D-MA), defeated legislation that would revamp the regulations of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. HR 5767 was brought to the Committee by Frank. Two votes were taken. The first was on an amendment by Congressman Peter King (R-NY) that would have called for the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve to work hand in hand with the Department of Justice to ascertain what identify what kinds of online gambling are legal and what kinds are not. It was defeated after a 32-32 roll call vote, with many of the calls for defeat coming from Republican members of the Committee. HR 5767 was then voted on without the amendment and was defeated by an oral vote, with the Nays outnumbering the Yays by a sizeable margin.

The discussion within the House Financial Services Committee surrounded comments by Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL), who is the ranking Republican on the Committee. He opened the hearing and commented, “A national study several years ago said that problem gambling doubles within 10 miles of a gambling facility. The closer you get to a casino, the more problem gamblers you have. The internet puts that facility right in the middle of the home, in dorm rooms, and in the bedrooms of teenagers or college students.” Bachus claimed there is overwhelming support for banning internet gambling across the country, though organizations like the Poker Players Alliance have cried that the majority of Americans favor legalization and regulation.

Bachus expounds upon who is supporting the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act’s regulations: “We had 49 Attorney Generals write us and they urged us to pass the legislation in 2006. They now have said to speed up these regulations. Why did the American Psychological Association appear before us and asking us to pass the legislation we passed back in 2006? 47 state universities have sent letters to this committee urging us to keep this ban. It’s the effect on our youth. That’s what it’s all about: our youth. It’s about those studies that say that the younger one begins to gamble, the worse the problem is.” He spoke to the proponents of internet gambling in the audience and claimed, “You represent a criminal enterprise. I will tell you that the internet sites which are attempting to reverse this ban are criminal enterprises.”

King then spoke on the specifics of his proposed amendment, which focuses on providing the financial services industry with a considerable amount of direction: “The banking industry is enforcing and defining what the law is. My amendment withdraws the existing regulations and calls for the Treasury and Federal Reserve to work together with the Department of Justice to determine proper regulations. I am calling to have the current regulations rescinded. The amendment requires the Treasury to compile and maintain a list of unlawful internet gambling businesses. This isn’t about whether or not you believe in internet gambling; this is about imposing unenforceable regulations on the banking industry.” Supporters of King’s amendment included the Chamber of Commerce of the United States, the Financial Services Roundtable, and the National Association of Credit Unions.

Paul then spoke about his concerns with the UIGEA, which are themselves different from other members’ concerns: “I agree with everything about the dangers of gambling, but the issue to me is how we regulate moral behavior. The internet happens to be very important. It’s important to everybody. When you regulate the internet, you open up the door for all kinds of regulations. I believe individuals have a right to spend their money the way that they want to. Some people spend their money unwisely. If you can regulate how people spend money on the internet, it opens a can of worms because everyone is going to have a different item they want to regulate. There are special interests involved. People who like casinos don’t like internet gambling. The real issue is what the role of government ought to be.”

Congressman Mel Watt (D-NC) claimed that the discussion of whether Committee members were in favor of internet gambling was irrelevant: “It is unfair to banks to place this responsibility on them to decide what’s legal and illegal without very clear rules and regulations and that’s exactly what Mr. King’s amendment is proposing. I think my position on whether people ought to be allowed to gamble or not is not the underlying issue. My position abut whether people ought to supervise their children better is not the issue.”

Bachus had one of the final comments prior to adjournment before the vote and responded to Congressman Paul’s claim that the government should not get into the business of regulating the internet: “All 50 states have said we don’t want to have this go on; it’s illegal. The states have said, ‘Don’t operate illegal gambling sites through the internet.’ We already regulate the internet. It’s illegal to send child pornography over the internet today. We regulate that. We have determined that we are going to try to stop child pornography and illegal gambling over the internet. We don’t want those in our young people’s bedrooms and in their dorm rooms. We don’t want that addiction at an early age.”

The Committee adjourned, returning at 4:00pm ET for a vote. King’s amendment was defeated by a 32-32 margin. HR 5767, without the additional amendment, was voted on and defeated by a verbal call for votes. Poker Players Alliance Executive Director John Pappas will appear on the PocketFives.com Podcast this week to explain the organization’s next move.


Comments
 

EddieO said:

"We don’t want those in our young people’s bedrooms and in their dorm rooms. We don’t want that addiction at an early age.”

Do they understand that we aren't children?

They'll ship any 18 year old over to Iraq - but 18 year olds at college cannot be exposed to the internet....or they will be ruined forever - our country is such a joke on so many levels.

June 25, 2008 2:27 PM
 

Sabatosh said:

anyone know how when can find out how to email/regular mail our congressmen about this? this is rediculous. Like EddieO said, we can send an 18 year old to Iraq but he can't play poker? Come on.

June 25, 2008 2:43 PM
 

Jlivey said:

While I agree with Sabatosh, and EddieO on the concept that we are old enough to make our own decision.  I must say, stop with the lame "we can send an 18 year old over to Iraq....." I'm in the Army (10 years) with 3 tours in Iraq, and me just like them VOLUNTEERED TO GO.  It was our and nobody else's decision to go.  Thank you

June 25, 2008 3:05 PM
 

dgillis said:

 The Constitution and our federal government were both intended to provide protection to those who were not reasonably able to protect themselves. No law should infringe upon any individual's liberties unless in the course of exercising those liberties the rights and freedoms of others are affected. child pornography is prohibited not because it is morally wrong to partake, even though most would agree that it is, but because the production of such materials infringe on the rights of the children subjected to the abuses. It has been legislated that those over the age of 18 are able to give that consent, therefore regardless of moral issues the production of 18+ content is legal.

 The point is that gambling by any persons under the age of 18 is not permitted anywhere inside the US. With that said I pose this... whether poker is gambling or a skill game, the government has no right or foundation to deny any citizen the liberty to do so at their discretion. The  act of online poker does not infringe on any right or liberties guaranteed to our citizens by our constitution and therefore should not be denied.

 The problem is not our government or our constitution, it lies within those men and women holding office having decided that they can regulate the moral decisions of others based on the beliefs held by what they claim to be the majority. This concept is not new you will find it well documented in the history books. However translated it is either socialism or communism and not democracy. Our government exists to protect the individuals that make up our great land. A government by the people, for the people, of the people... a democratic nation that is sworn in writing to protect the inalienable rights of the citizens it is composed of. It is not responsible for the regulation of morals, that argument is clearly defined by the separation of church and state. So please, as patriots, offer me your thoughts and ideas for action.

June 25, 2008 3:12 PM
 

Glo4m said:

Nice for that a-hole to group child pornography with internet "gambling", real great point of reference for level of criminality.

June 25, 2008 3:13 PM
 

ComebackShane said:

@Jlivey:

Yes, you volunteered to go, and the government had no problem at all in letting YOU make the decision whether or not you wanted to put your life at risk for your country.

And yet they claim that we you unable to control yourself in matters of how you spend your own money, and that the government must protect you from yourself.

And that is the inherent hypocrisy with our government. We the people are able, and intelligent when it serves them, but helpless and reckless when it does not.

June 25, 2008 3:18 PM
 

dgillis said:

oh and one more point, an action that is made illegal by a law that is unconstitutional is not a crime. For example, after the repealing of the prohibition laws those found guilty were no longer considered criminals. There is a term for this but I cannot remember it, anyone who knows of the law please post the legal terminology.

June 25, 2008 3:19 PM
 

2Slick4u said:

None are so blind as those who will not see.

To all the Nazi Morals Police: You ain't gonna stop squat no matter what you do, no matter how much you spend, no matter how long you keep fighting the will of the American people to be free to spend their money on what they want to spend it on.....

June 25, 2008 3:21 PM
 

IceVenom said:

Why are they talking about children...all of these "gambling" sites require you to be 18 or 21 anyway so that shouldn't even be the topic of their discussion.  They don't even have a proper argument.

June 25, 2008 3:36 PM
 

mesaplayeraz said:

IceVenom.. actually they do have a proper argument regarding underage people gambling.  

Im willing to bet that are a lot of under 18 people who are members of P5's that play online poker.

Just because the gambling sites TOS say 18 or 21 isnt going to stop a 15 or 16 year old from playing online.

Just saying.

June 25, 2008 4:31 PM
 

OhBoy74 said:

Does anyone know where we can get a list of the 32 congressman voting against the resolution?  If my congressman voted against it, I'm going to write him a letter detailing exactly why he won't be receiving my vote in November.

June 25, 2008 4:40 PM
 

sean b said:

^^^^ i agree

June 25, 2008 4:49 PM
 

Miller_Tyme said:

In re: to Jlivey comment.

I thank you, for you service to protecting our freedoms. That's what this country is suppose to be about, maybe we should deploy you here to protect us from the B.S. our lawmakers are handing us. I understand the concerns that some people will make poor judgements when it comes to gambling, but that's life. Just as people gamble with smoking and drinking, but yet Government won't shut those entities down. Cancer, Drunk driving both major killing factors here in the U.S. but there's nothing being done about that, hmm makes you wonder. Government picks and chooses what it wants to control. People like us who can make a great living playing poker online, make people in Government uneasy. It must suck to see an online poker pro making more money than them in a single sunday tourney than what they make in a year. If Government wants to protect me from me, I must say to them, please stop. Let me make my own mistakes. We have bigger issues in life than online gambling. Good luck at the tables all.

June 25, 2008 4:59 PM
 

ilivebythe5 said:

I mean it sounds like their whole argument is "we won't let adults gamble because it might affect the children."  Give me a break.  How about we don't allow adults to drink alcohol or smoke or anything else that might influence children.  

Trust me, I'm all about protecting kids, but I don't think adults should lose their freedom over it.  This is so retarded.

June 25, 2008 5:06 PM
 

Dan said:

This YouTube video has the full vote recorded. I'm still hunting down a complete list:

www.youtube.com/watch

June 25, 2008 5:12 PM
 

dgillis said:

there are a number of watchdog organization that will be happy to provide a full list not to mention all votes are a matter of public record. ill see what i can find but im willing to bet the ppa is going to have it available soon.

June 25, 2008 5:45 PM
 

Bond18 said:

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!?

June 25, 2008 6:27 PM
 

heathen said:

Hmmm... I can jump in my car and drive a half hour to an "Indian" casino. I can go to Nevada to a casino, or even (not that I care to) a legal whorehouse. But in the privacy of my own home, I cannot play poker? I'm not a child and my offspring are no longer children. My money is all legally earned and fully taxed... I can (and do) buy alcohol, tobacco, and firearms legally. I can buy dangerous drugs, prescribed by a doctor, legally. But I cannot participate in a voluntary, non-violent recreation of my own choosing and within the privacy of my own home because someone else might have an addictive personality and foul up his own life?

I'm fed up with "for the children". I was a child once myself, for about as many years as any other human being (although, apparently, congresscritters tend to remain children throughout their lives), and now I'm about as grown up as any other adult. Let me live my own life, free from the interference of those who mistakenly believe it is their duty and obligation to be my mommy and keep me out of trouble.

"Land of the free" my hairy ass!

June 25, 2008 6:38 PM
 

dixiecrat88 said:

according the youtube clip, which i am assuming was correct it said the vote was 32-32, which still defeats the bill, but it wasnt 35-32

June 25, 2008 8:32 PM
 

emoneypitt said:

I just watched some of the proceedings with various people. These people speaking out against this bill either don't have a clue or live some very sheltered lives or both.

June 25, 2008 8:32 PM
 

apeter20 said:

meh watching them give their oral votes really tilts me. I WILL be sending out letter to EVERY member in the house financial services committee and I really hope that all of you who have complained rightfully so) will do the same and not re-elect these ppl who do not represent our views.

Since when are college student considered kids? I would also like them to vote SPECIFICALLY on the merits of poker and not all that other b.s. I would bet 50% of government officials have played some form of poker in their lifetime.haha esp during college.

June 25, 2008 8:36 PM
 

keepitgreen said:

Hey guys, see the full vote list on my blog, with direct link to representatives contact information.  Please contact your representative and let them know you are a proud poker player!

legalonlinepoker.blogspot.com

Isaac

June 25, 2008 9:55 PM
 

ChoboPokeR_r said:

Can anyone explain to me very quickly what its saying?

so did we lose or win?>

June 26, 2008 2:49 AM
 

ilivebythe5 said:

I just watched the video and the ending is retarded.  The whole part about the "no's" outweighed the "i's" is an exaggeration.  He asks "all in favor say I" and you have a number of people say I.  Then he asks "all those opposed say no" and you have about the same number of people yell at the top of their lungs "no."  Just because they were louder doesn't make it a majority.  It's so retarded and all the people there are all joking around like this isn't even an important issue.

June 26, 2008 4:52 AM
 

Bogeydog said:

It underscores what's really wrong with the country today that these Congressman take their energy and use it for this.  Why not find a useful outlet for that passion?  Harness it to stop something that is meaningful to stop, e.g. child pornography.  These officials, who are supposed to be a representative of the people, are not using logic on what to fight.  If you asked 100 people what's more important, stopping sexual predators or internet 'gambling', you may get one response on gambling (he's the sexual offender), but they chose to fight this only because a vocal few say it's 'what's right' and they are the ones who will vote them into office again.  Makes me sick.

June 26, 2008 5:46 AM
 

scottyclark said:

    this country will NEVER regulate online gaming IMO. i have accepted this fact, and my thoughts are 'accept it and hope status quo continues. we are playing, depositing, and withdrawing despite the fact that its illegal.

    my local congressman is a 'friend' of the 'family'. he reports that it is washington's feelings that online gaming is run by international criminals, with rigged software, and questionable associations/business practices.

    it will remain the official stance of the majority of politicians until the sites/thier lobbyists buy a group of US politicians favor. thus is the state of American politics.

June 26, 2008 6:57 AM
 

Skywolf said:

Decisions such as this are the very reason why poker players need to unite to stand up for our rights. I urge you to go to www.pokerplayersalliance.org and join the PPA today. The web site also has a very easy to fill out form for you to contact your elected officials.

June 26, 2008 7:56 AM
 

bwbw80 said:

I counted y-32, n-31.

What gives?

June 26, 2008 8:55 AM
 

BudmansCom said:

"Bachus claimed there is overwhelming support for banning internet gambling across the country"

Well, we POLL everything else going on in this country, and elect administrations that seem to operate based on polling data.  So, okay then, let's see that poll.  Let's take and document a true poll across the country to support (or refute) Mr. Bachus' claim.

I'd love to see a good, solid Gallup poll on precisely this issue.

June 26, 2008 12:03 PM
 

Dan said:

Here's the link to the official voting record. If your Congressmen voted for or against the amendment, tell them that you appreciated what they did or that what they did will cost them your vote in November:

www.house.gov/.../110th_fc_record_vote_113.pdf

June 26, 2008 1:34 PM

 
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