Nice article, Dan! Thanks.
Randy Castonguay did a great job for us in making this happen. We showed politicians in Mass and everywhere else that we'll no longer be run over.
hope to get a free trip to the wsop ME :)
Hey, Grange. Yes, I read the decision. The main goal of iMEGA heading into the ruling was to be granted standing and that's exactly what happened. The Third District Court of Appeals has historically ruled favorably towards first amendment issues.
It seems they are realizing that they have made it impossible for the banks to implement this unwise piece of legislation. However, do we really want any intervention by the US government, who seems to screw up and tax everything they come near. Seems like the major poker sites are doing a fine job, with a few notable exceptions of sites I will not name that should just be avoided. Superuser comes to mind.
A big Thank You to Dan for watching and reporting on this important hearing. I encourage all to keep up the pressure by writing your Congressmen and Senators and participating in the Poker Players Alliance.
Dan,
Great update. The timing of these hearings probably couldn't be better considering the current state of the US financial services industry. It is unrealistic to expect our financial services firms to police cush transactions and I expect that many congressmen/woman are realizing that and are more likely to change their stance.
As someone who pays taxes in the rare occasion that I actually win, I think regulation of the online poker world would be a huge win and would reinvigorate the online poker world. I have a dream of a world where fish can continuously load accounts with dead money!
To have as a goal merely to be granted standing is rather odd, particularly if iMEGA was using their standing to advance such weak arguments on the merits. The 10th Amendment and ex post facto law arguments are almost laughable, and the other arguments look to have little merit, at least under current case law. Relying on a 1st Amendment free speech claim when UIGEA pretty clearly only prohibits certain financial transactions is real long shot, no matter the court. Although I think UIGEA is a flawed and ill-conceived piece of legislation, the legal challenges asserted by iMEGA do nothing to advance the cause of legalizing online poker. In any event, iMEGA's "victory" in getting standing to challenge UIGEA really has no practical value when iMEGA hasn't asserted any reasonably meritorious legal basis to challenge the validity of UIGEA. At the very least, iMEGA and the poker press should not misrepresent the decision as somehow striking down or even questioning the validity of UIGEA.
FWIW, the current efforts by Barney Frank and others in Congress to rethink the scope of UIGEA is the best way to re-legalize online poker. Perhaps iMEGA's resources are better directed to lobbying Congress for an online poker exception to UIGEA.
P.S. The appeal will be heard by the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, not the Third District (just a minor correction for any follow up articles).
Just a follow up comment to this post: I don't know why, but I believe that most horse wagering sites, (ex. YouBet, Twin Spires, etc.) do not allow wagering from the vast majority of states (at one time I remember counting something like only 14 states where wagering was allowed). I've never received a satisfactory explanation for this (other than vague "state statute" referrals). Perhaps you have a better answer. Also, you might save sign up time for the vast majority of US citizens by listing the states that TS allows wagering from.
Thanks,
Niels Rikhof
Some horse racing wagering sites are available in more states than others. TwinSpires and Youbet are available in over 30 states while TVG is only available in 15. It is up to the horse racing wagering site to determine each state's laws and regualtations regarding parimutuel wagering and the legality of internet wagering.
Hope this helps.
Kudos to Congressman Frank and other legislative supporters of this Bill! I'm glad that big banks are also now supporting this new bill as they obviously have a powerful lobby and voice to put behind this.
As for Johny PoKer's comments, I disagree. While I agree that in a perfect world the Fed would not be involved at all in Internet gaming issues, this is not a perfect world and the current legislation is a barrier to online poker, as well precedent to further preclude online poker in the US. Frank's legislation looks to overturn this completely and legalize it - a huge benefit for online players.
In addition, even under the current system you should be paying your taxes on online gaming wins. If you aren't you are setting yourself up for trouble with the IRS. The overall gaming community will benefit from the regulations and standards put on the gaming sites specifically. Frank's bill calls for pretty strict regulatory standards aimed to ensure that gaming is fair for all players. Personally, I think that the biggest flaw in online poker right now is the basic lack of any type of oversight or regulatory enforcement by a third party. US Fed oversight will give a lot of protections to include: secure storage of personal information, top notch encryption on financial transactions, eliminating under aged players, and most of all - making sure the odds are fair and everybody has a level playing surface.
I support this bill in full and I'm really excited it is getting traction
f' sundays
no love for measly back to back 3r wins :(
always fun to get 10th in the mil :-/
RANK CHICAGOCARD1 ALREADY JEEZ
agreed
No mention of Believer82 taking down the FTP 1k for 90K? PFFFFFFF
Hixx ? Herdgolf ?
Bond18 Climbing the Ladder keep it up
Re-rank sheets imo
DAVID HUBER WILL YOU HAVE MY BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????
All of the $30+ grinders are dropping down to $6 and below levels to get onto the leaderboard.. Very Annoying, too many ppl who know what they are doing at my $6 turbo sng.
Apparently you need to deposit to be part of it so make a deposit and then send yourself a check for the same amount off of stars.
tmlms13: is that where all the people who know how to fold went?
It's about time!!!
RON PAUL IS THE FUGGEN MANNNNNN
nice!!
Awesome :)
go ron paul!
<3 Ron Paul
looks like there won't be an overlay this week after this post though! :p
sweet
There is usually a 20k overlay,you guys stay off my site. Stick to Full Trash and Poker Tards.
Thanks for letting everyone know. Boooooooooooooooooooooo.
everyone just disregard this article, ty :)
Best keep secret !!!
Not any more !!!!! Donk
p5s staffs blows another one , what else is new
how much did bodog pay you to do this article? Please remove this article immediately! Why ruin it for all the loyal bodog customers? Sigh... GG overlays
lol, only real tourney on bodog
Im glad this wasnt posted last week
way to let everyone know. boooo
Irony at its finest.
looks like a 200k prizepool this week
I guess this week is the time to play, all the Donkeys will be there. Great tourny!!!
wheres my 550 whatever finish in the $11 $100,000 gurantee tourney
too bad bodog doesnt allow canadians
Good luck to all the P5ers that are playing in the WPT championship. Huge congrats to Glenn Chorny, I watched the final table on EPT live and he was dominate.
Phil is so sick...
Phil obv sicko, he RAN that stars final table!!!!!!
nooooo dont tell ppl about it!!!
Non-Us players...ahhh great...the little things that piss me off about this country...
where do i find the p5s tourny i signed up n put in money cant fnid this ish
plzzzzzz can some1 help me where to find this tourny. i think i foud it but then it says i cant register because its a private. any ideas???
I can`t find it either...does it exist?????
how long till russ takes Lil off the top??????
rank chicagocards1 alread. WTF does he gotta do?
i like cake
Platts is a sicko!
Rock on Gbecks!
you guys need to recognize CrazySkills more often! he owns the $100 rebuy on stars and just won the second chance! WTF?!
Quick question: So do we in the United States file taxes for online poker winnings?
Neo,
You'd better if you don't want the IRS on your ass. It's much like drug money. Doesn't matter if online gambling is legal or not, if you make money on it, the IRS gets its cut.
ahh... i see. thanks xixor
I'm there, I qualified last week for the 100k in a $4 rebuy and there was only 675 people to start the tournament. Let's get as many people as we can to sign up, it will really benefit this tournament.
Sign up for free!!! Score big !!!
Then bounce a check
Well, you got me to reinstall the client
Oh, so it costs 5 bucks.
LMAO
"the Bodog $100k Guaranteed weekly tournament regularly boasts an overlay of over $20,000 in added prize pool money; with overlays often surpassing $30k, or 30% of the total prize pool."
that's why Bodog is broke and won't pay you when you go to cashout.
I've gotten my cashout with no problem. You guys need to stop banging so hard on Bodog.
I kno, the 5bucks thing was kinda weak, but I get payoud out there all the time
Are you guys for real?
Why would you wan tmore players, it just makes for a bigger field which in turn makes it harder to get in the cash!!
idiots!
look guy, the more people signing up, the more free seats they give away the following week
asshole!
rank Lee Jones.
how does it feel to have people you used to own be your boss?
Dont let them talk you into doing flips for your paycheck
Card Runners just went up 1000% in my books. An incredibly genius move on their behalf to get Lee on the team.
They have brought in a guy with an incredible wealth of experience in growing and fostering a very big business. They may be smart guys but there is no way one could substitute for the experience and reputation of Mr. Lee Jones himself. IMO this move will be +++EV comparitive to Lee's Salary in terms of the respect they will gain from the online community resulting in hoards of new customers including myself.
The committment to excellence this shows is tremendous.
How will Bax and Sheets match this? IDK if it's even possible......
Very Very WP Card Runners!
Checkmate imo
I think the ability to review how other players have played through videos up until the time of the final table obv will give players an unfair edge. I don't agree with this one bit.
omg
this is extreme bull shit...... there is already too much demand for this tourny... wtf are they doing
So they have to wait 5 months to get paid?
And who gets the interest on $20million+/- ???? for 5 months
this is so gay
this is a great idea and the demand for the tourney isnt as big as you think. every year poker ratings have gone dramatically for the past two years because it is the same old thing honestly this will def spruce things up and make it very anti climatic year after year.
what happens when the ppl who FT are euros and cant watch the episodes back home on espn? and obv wont want to live out of a hotel for 4 months in LV
The idea is good but why wait that long? They could just do it a couple of weeks or maybe even 1 month later. I wouldn't want to wait on my money for 4 months. They better at least cut a check for the guaranteed 9th place money!
TERRIBLE!
This bastardizes the ME in countless ways!
2 months wouldn't bother me, but 5 months is absolutely ridiculous... Too much can happen, and too much is at stake to wait almost half a year to resolve.
Just another example of Harrahs overmilking the cash cow. They are trying to make it healthier, but they're liable to kill it with this stupidity. Kat
So now when a donk gets lucky and makes final table, he'll have 5 months to get around-the-clock lessons from pros. (He'll be able to afford it after all) So by the time Nov comes along, he'll actually have a chance. Not right at all
What happens if one of the final 9 is sick (or worse) and can't make it 5 months later?
There are a lot of variables that could fuck some1 over 4 months after they make the final table...health, family, work, etc etc....i think it should be ONE MONTH MAX!
When does Lee make his first video about running good at pokerstars?
It takes the dribble of piss that was left in the mian event out of it. Corporations are wonderful!
its not going to make everyone more anxious to see who wins.... its going to make everyone completely forget about it...
I think someone at the WSOP is trying to shoot themselves in the foot. This won't expand interest in the tournament, but it might kill it.
This has to be a joke. I don't understand this one bit. Five months!?! Unbelievable. Then they just play down to two and play heads up the next day? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in quite a while, and I hang out with a bunch of idiots. GG WSOP Main Event.
It's going to be pretty hilarious if the heads-up match lasts one hand.
this is a joke right? i dont think this can be true at all. People from las vegas cant believe this will cause more interest. Maybe this is some kind of trick or publicity before the ME
hmmm I wonder if they will accrue interest and include that into the final payout , the money they will make in keeping the cash a half year will net them.
what a joke.. I don't agree with this on so many levels.. Why give a 4 month lay off. This isn't nascar or the NFL draft this is a poker tournament and it should be played as such.
I tought this was a serious and professional held event. I guess it is not anymore. WPT will keep growing in recognition, and WSOP will be just another circus, with a bunch of tards wearing ridiculous outfits and acting like idiots for a few weeks.
this is the worst idea ever!!!!
this has got to be the fucking worst idea ever. i thought when you play poker (online) you wait a few hours for there to be a winner and live you maybe wait a few days at most depending on how many play, but 4 5 months. i didnt realize a tournament could take4 of 5 months, o wait it cant WSOP just blows and is a money hungry business like anything else. is this poker or is this just another scheme for certain people (the ones who run WSOP) to make money. i say we boycott the main event.
I live in Europe (UK). There is some advantages & disadvantages to this. ESPN I can not get unless maybe I take a full sub to Sky costing a fortune. Therefore not taking advantage of seeing my opponents style. There could be major problems for players outside the USA. These days if you get 3 points on your license America ban you as they class you as a criminal or a threat to national security, what happens to people that end up not getting into the country for one reason or another, if it were an USA residents only event things could be different. What if airports get shut due to a terrorist threat for a week, do they wait or blind you off as you sit in heathrow airport seeing you $$$$ getting washed away
Advantages are that you will be a millionaire before you get back to the final table. I am certainly not one for fame but every big clothing, hair, watch, shoe, hat, mobile, drinks website companies etc etc will be all over you like a rash. Big newspapers will want your story, rags to riches etc. That girl you screwed the left in the street will suddenly pop out of the woodwork, you will be an overnight star and will be representing you country.
Have any of the top pros who are suppose to want a golf like set up similar to majors like the US & British open been involved? Would Tiger Woods come back to scotland to play his final round of the open in November. Players and critics would say that was ridiculous. When Jamie Gold won it was the biggest sporting money win of all time! Why do we need to do stupid stunts like this to promote the event! Surely the chance of winning 12 million dollars is enough for the marketing & TV people to promote the event up pre July.
this is so F'n retarded! To make the final table of the ME you are obv playing some great poker along with some luck....five months later you could be in a rut and not playing as well or no longer in the groove you were when you made the final table...wtf five months! lolololol morons
Wow... As I read this article I was thinking I can't wait to watch this final table. Sick I know. As a spectator I think this is going to add a lot of excitement and draw a lot of attention to the WSOP. As a poker player I can understand everyone's frustration. However everyone will have the same opportunity to improve thier edge during the wait. Also the sponsorship money for the final 9 will be worth waiting for and I bet none of them will be upset by this, whoever they may be. Possibilty for corruption? Maybe. We'll see.
hey its May 1st not April 1st ... this has got to be a joke right??
what ridiculous bs
there are so many reasons why this is fuxked up
keep my money for 5 months??
what if one of the ftablers dies??
whoever thought this up is a total corporate greedhead
or a complete idiot , most likely both
This is horrible! IMO
This is a terrible idea. Not only does this inconvenience all the players, but it gives each of them an unnecessary edge in being able to see each other's cards and plays before they play each other. They SHOULD NOT televise the ME until all play is over.
Also, the whole "Line-Up sponsors" thing is bull. Do we ever hear about the person that finished 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.? The winner and runner-up are the only ones that get significant attention. Being a spectator, I don't even remember who was at the FT last year. I only remember that Yang won it and the HU play didn't last very long.
worst thing ive ever heard. ok maybe seven days but 100? no way, part of winning this tournament is the stamina it takes to make it to the final and still play great poker. This is effectivley tourning the ME into a 2700+ player satalite to a nine man single table. And I dont know you but I wouldnt been to excited to show you my hole cards after every hand... which is what will happen on tv during that 100 days.
This is like running a marathon and stopping it at the last 100 yards. Everyone goes home and rests and trains again and when they come back the fastest runner for 100 yards wins not the one who is the best marathoner! It is a completely different race.
This ME delay is nonsese and a disgrace.
sorry for the poor grammer... at work, didnt proof read that. the line was supposed to be "I don't know about you but I wouldnt be to excited to show my hole cards after every hand..."
This is absolutely ridiculous. I am interested who in the poker community that is a live tournament player actually believed this was a good idea. If they are going to do something so stupid for marketing purposes they may as well spread the entire tourney over the year. Have Day 1 in January, Day 2 in March, etc. However, if their main goal was to shrink the size of the main event field they may be succeeding.
This idea obviously came from President Bush. Who else could have such a horribly wrong idea?
Bunch of idiots on this site apparently. 5 months??? Can you people count? It's less than 4 months. I agree still too long but you people are such morons. Keep screaming 5 months, 5 months and make yourselves look as irrelevant as you ARE!
I'm certain that everybody complaining about this now will be absolutely entranced by the final table come November. More people will watch and the excitement of watching will be way more than any of the other ME final tables.
Now from a player's perspective, I would not want to wait that long at all. But, since I will almost assuredly be a spectator, this is totally fine with me.
What would happen if one "thinking" unethical player uses his million dollars plus of ninth place money to hire hitmen to take out the other eight... well maybe only seven to sway any suspicion and still get to play heads up??? Bad for poker, good for a movie!!
as if this tourney wasn't already the hugest crap-shoot ever, now your 10k dice-roll will depend on how you're running nearly four months after you have perhaps just come off of the greatest tourney run of your life...by the time you win it, you'll be more suited to be put on the box of "Lucky Charms" than to be the face of poker...
Epic Fail
I'm willing to bet that those guys are gonna hella grind some STT's before Nov. 9th.
I'm not a fan of this idea either but in the interest of fairness, this article doesn't mention some relevant details:
1) Players get paid their 9th place money up front
2) The interest accumulated on the 1st - 8th place money will be added to the prize pool
3) Harrah's is flying the players back to LV for the final table, so theres no worries about European/non-Las Vegas players having to live in a hotel for 4 months
Like I said, I don't like this change because it compromises the integrity of the tournament and it eliminates the stamina aspect that is what separates the main event from smaller tournaments, but some of the above criticisms don't match up with facts.
I completely understand all the negatives from a pure poker standpoint, however this is a good move from several different angles...
1. This will certainly increase interest in the Main Event and thus poker in general...good for all of us right?
2. Any "unfair" advantages of reviewing previous play of opponents will be equally enjoyed by all players at the final table.
3. The people who make the final table will enjoy endorsements that will compensate them more than they'll probabably make from the payouts (with the exception of the top 2 or3 spots)
So...More exposure for poker, more money for the players at the final table sounds like a win win to me...
The only valid concern is the chance of outside circumstances that would prevent someone from being able to play the FT...
What happens if someone who made the final table, gets into a car accident and dies?? what are they going to do??
joke idea in my opinion. Imagine running hot and on the best streak of your life. 5 months later you cant hit an out.
I think people will lose interest in it. Its also not too appealing to play in a tourney you know wont finish for half a year.
level?
If what Lord Supremo said is correct, I don't have a problem with it. The reason they are playing for that much money is because of TV. If you are really worried about dying, contact Lloyd's of London and have them write an insurance policy for future earnings (the ultimate chop).
This will definitely allow all of the FT the opportunity to maximize their marketability. No one knows who is going to win for five months!!! Sell yourself as the next World Champ and reap the benefits.
I'd bet against me to win (if I was a finalist, obv), and bet as much as I could (which would be less than the difference between first and second), therefore making more than I would unless I won.
I have trouble sleeping for a final table 2 day event. I could only imagine sleeping for 4 months with everyone hyping you up oh god......
I think maybe 2 weeks of sweat would be good
At first I didn't like it, but I kind of do now...
1.Endorsements/Sponsorships
2.Better play means better viewing: you can study your opponents and they can study you, the poker should be much better than previous WSOP ME final tables
3.You already receive 9th place money when you go home, everyone should be happy with that plus they get to rest after playing for 2 weeks or even 6 weeks straight of WSOP tourneys.
4.Face it, poker is on the decline, this should make it much more interesting for non-poker players, maybe another smaller Moneymaker boom? I'm hoping for a flmodesq21 boom...
I played last week in the 100k and there was a 30k overlay, so i hope we get a huge crowd today to get as many seats as we can for next week
as long as i am at the final table i dont mind waiting for 5 months. When they fly me back from australia i will be demanding business class! haha
I hope I make the final table.....I am sure I could have the other players knocked off for less than 5 mil......would be a good hedge......
I think this move to push back the final table is fine if Harrah’s and ESPN kick in some sponsorship money. This will undoubtedly affect the tourney, as the players taking such a long break before playing the FT and then another break for a day before playing out the heads up, there is no question this will affect the players mindset and arguably the outcome. Now the break is going to be fair an equal to all those fortunate enough to make the final table so in I would say the outcome will not be unfairly affected. That said this move is really all about gaining more viewers for the broadcast, which will generate more revenue for ESPN and Harrah’s, so should the FT players not get some sort of compensation for the lengthy delay….I think so, I would think an appearance fee would be in order over and above the very minimal flights to and from and interest tacked on to the prize-pool.
As a viewer I think this is a great move!
As a poker player…if you insist on messing around with a great thing then you better compensate for it with a very nice cheque.
How much would you have to be comped to make the wait worth it?
I guess the best way to express my displeasure with this rediculous change is not to patronize any Harrahs' properties. I encourage those who visit brick and morter casinos to do the same.
This is one of the most extreme examples of "corporate greed" i have seen.
Gooooooooooooooooo mike!!!!!!!!!
I hope they change this shit!! its only because they want to make more money on the tv!! if every body knows that in 4 month the champion will be fund then every body want to wacth!! WHAT A JOKE !!!!!!!!!!!! :o(
Best player in the world that not many people know.
yawnnn nice 2 weeks for you bro
COngrats Ben...
This undermines the entire integrity of the WSOP. It was never meant to be played this way and I am shocked that the old timers like Doyle and Slim are'nt raising hell.
I've never had a problem getting a cashout, although it sometimes takes a long time, like 5 weeks this time.
I wouldn't worry about them going broke, they are a billion dollar company which makes most of its cash on gaming/sports bettors.
Ur such a sicko Ben. Congrats!!!
So now on top of the US Government being a pain in the ass, now we have to deal with State Governments too? USA....land of the free my ass....
i am going to try and be at the rally. i hope that other p5er's in WA will also show there support to getting this ridiculous law overturned in our state!
anybody got a chance 10 or 50 players makes no difference if your good enought, u will win a seat......joker131
FULL TILT IS FUNNY THE WAY IT WORKS U KNOW WHEN THE BEAT IS COMING
Daniel "djk123" Kelly that pic is gay.
How many played in it last week?
Congratz dude!
UB did a great job of ruining their tourney schedule, most their guarantees now are Turbos, and the Genius Short Stack Turbo Guarantees are a joke of a crapshoot
Is this Kosher?
I agree with decoynum10
IMO
Live is a game of "Skill"...
Online is a game "LUCK"!!!
You must not be a winning player online JonesZ. Skilll is skill whether directed towards online or live play.
The Goat: too many factors play are in play when online that are not present when playing LIVE that a player cannot control...
I do understand and respect the vague point you are making.
I agree. UB used to be one of my favorite sites until they screwed up their tourneys. Annie never plays on UB anyways. Why not let some of the loyal players have some input?
LOL at JonesZ....your right, people like Menlo are simply more lucky than me.
hmmm i wonder what would happen if u strip mr menlo or any other superstar from their bankroll....
skill vs chance changes a lot from stake to stake online....
It was s/he lack of understanding of the topic question... being a winning player online or Live was not and is not the question in the well written article.
Many will take a stance that there is no variance online, but, since no one really knows or understands how the RNG works; online is a game of LUCK.
Beginners think it's about chance and attribute their continuing losses vs. skilled players to bad luck. But that many of the same people feature at the WPT/WSOP final tables must mean there is a lot of skill involved otherwise Phil Hellmuth, Daniel Negreanu. Doyle Brunson etc. must be the luckiest people on earth.
Trial and error, you must have the will to continue for any chance at success. Oh and dont sit at a table with all ur money!
This is a simple arguement to resolve. Show the video of Annette_15 winning a 180 SnG without looking at her cards. This proves without a doubt its skill and not chance. End of story!
LOL! It's still got to do with a lot of chances sometimes guys... POKER to me now seriously is a luck factor game but you have to play solid to out beat those LUCK factors in the long run....LONG TERM GOALS!!!!!!!! be reached..
sweet tourney! Looking forward to next weeks....
In any given sample of 100,000 games, a skilled player isn't going to lose, ever.
Football has luck (factors like the wind that make the ball bounce funny, etc.) , yet noone is criticising the NFL for offering it's teams a prize for winning the Super Bowl.
Winning at Online Poker is indeed, a skill.
Jennifear I am doing my best to understand exactly what it is your example is stating!
The pyridine you are attempting to draw between football and online poker is not one in the same. Would you please explain further.
Poker is a game of skill.. Online or live. the swings are just way wilder online tournament stuctures are diffrent faster more hands per hour the varience is incredible. I agree bankroll has a lot to do with it. Take pearljammed strip him of his bankroll make him start over and he will catch hell just like all of the normal players. I still believe he would eventually regain his bankroll but it would be slow.
Jones,
I love how you are forcing other people to prove you are wrong, when you've done nothing to support your arguments. I can sit here and claim the sky is really green, not blue, and shoot holes into other's arguments to the contrary, yet it doesn't make me right.
Also, I think you see Jennifears point. In football, a gust of wind can blow knocking one QB's throws offline, while not blowing on the other teams critical throw. One team might get called for a penalty when their offensive lineman is slipping and grabs the D-lineman, where the same penalty isn't called on the other team (just variance). Yet, when they have the best team determined by 1 game (really, if they played 100 games, would the Giants beat the Patriots 51 times or more?), we don't call it a game of luck. Poker has elements of luck, but its a game of skill.
This is not a debate.
Probability is math. Meteorologists use math models to predict the weather, and sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. If you could flip a coin and know that it will hit heads 50.1 percent of the time, suddenly flipping a coin is not gambling anymore.
lordxixir101 again a very vague description and now a rationalization. Football does not play the Superbowl 100 times, no sport does, the leagues that do play the best of 7 history has proven that the best team does not always win (is that variance or luck)?
You and others do not call online poker a game of luck for self serving reasons; IMO live poker is a game of skill, once the deck is cut the shuffle begins the cards are in plain view, skill determines the outcome. Online-is different game all you have to do is examine how the RNG works? The example Jennifear gives is so obsolete its is humorous "In any given sample of 100,000 games, a skilled player isn't going to lose, ever". How would you refer to a person that wins 30 or more races in poker? Ask Annette...
LOL, its good to see poker players who still think it's a game of luck. Bad for the PPA, bad for online poker in general, but good for my BR.
They are the ones that continue to load $$ into the Poker Economy, just like the players @ the slots in Vegas,,,"Maybe I'll get lucky tonight". They are the one's who light up the chat when their AQo goes bust against 89s or AA<46s AIPF against an odds call. They typically, don't know the odds, don't know how to bet, play out of their BR, out of position, and refuse to study the game to see if they have a leak. TYVM
The size of your BR is irrelevant if your playing within it, if you have $100, then play the $1,or less. Ask Annette or Ferguson.
I donked off a more than a few grand my first 18 months of online poker, then joined a training site, learned the game, learned to play SnGs, learned to manage a 3 month losing streak, but most importantly, learned to manage my BR. $5 SnGs and $10 MTTs to start, followed Ferguson"s BR mgmnt formula. I listened to 2 buddy s who have made a living over the past 2 years slugging out low level buy in SnGs amd Mtts, and listened to them chastise me for entering a $50 tourney when all I had was $3K in my account. When would win a $215 satty and wanted to play the a Sun major, they told me I was and idiot, it's "1/10 your BR moron".
I'm profitable now, have been since Jan 07, thanks to Quaid, Chippie, PXfactor, and the players who think its luck
.
Jenn, you can't use football, and I'm not sure there is an comparison that will work, poker is unique, it takes too long for the skill level to overtake the luck factor, thankfully it will.
I play live. The quality of play, in general, at the larger casinos, in the $1-2 NL ring games is way worse than online in ring games. Perhaps, that's why some people can win live and lose online. it's the competition.
But, here, you support my argument. The best teams don't always win at sports. So, the best always winning is not a prerequisite for a game of skill. Secondly, you have no issues with live poker, yet you have issues with RNG's. Really, RNG's are wholly complicated programs that, when boiled down to, are random enough for poker. Even if you can prove it isn't completely random, who cares, you have no idea what card is coming next, and neither does anyone else, so its good enough (Grapsfan wrote an article about this).
Also, what would be my self serving reason for wanting poker to be skill? The only money I get from poker is money I win. If I'm lucky or good, it's all the same money in my pocket, and it spends the same way.
For deadfish, I disagree that you can't use football. It isn't the best example, but it's a skill game with a bit of luck. Poker's luck is much more obvious than most other skill games/sports. But, there is luck involved in most things you do.
Take getting a job. You can have great games, great experience, but the hiring manager has a huge fight with his wife 20 minutes before your interview. It clouds his judgement, and you get worse scores than a similar candidate who interviewed yesterday. You couldn't do anything to prevent it, it's just a bad break for you (or good for the other guy). Yet, over the course of your life, these even out (not every interview you get will have a fight right before it).
So, went the long way, but as I tried to show, there is some "luck" in football, so it can be used as a comparison, even if its a bit rough (though, when you compare any 2 things, there always some liberties taken. Personally, I think a baseball example might work out much better.
CHICKEN or EGG?
"Luck" is getting AA om the BB with the dealer picks up KK.
"Skill" is being able to put that AA down on a K-Q-Q board.
Nice win Shaundeeb
Poker is a game of skill. It is a contest of abilities, more akin to bridge or chess than it is to gambling, in that more-talented players will prevail against less-talented players. Chance can and will affect short-term results, but skill separates winners from losers over time.
You will never get to play a pickup game against Kobe or a round of golf against Tiger, or play me heads up and have a chance but you can plop your buy-in down and take on Doyle Brunson or Phil Ivey.
Thats the greatest part of poker.
I've seen this argument time and time again and I will be the first to say that poker does have a good amount of luck involved. However, if you make a comparison to a slot machine (multi-wheel spin with RNG coded within), what are the odds of you hitting Bar-Bar-Bar? You don't know. however, the RNG in a slot machine doesn't continually cycle when the spin is started. The RNG "STOPS" when the handle is pulled or the button is pressed.
As everyone knows, the "live" shuffle serves the purposes of randomizing the cards prior to a deal. If the RNG runs true in poker and the RNG is to act as a shuffle, then the argument of the RNG preventing the skill factor is moot. The only way that the RNG would be false is if the RNG program ran and randomized the cards throughout the hand. If programmers are able to halt an RNG in a slot machine when the reels are "started", then programmers would know that the RNG stop is triggered and the cards are set when the 1st card is dealt.
The remaining argument is no different than live poker. Odds, betting patterns, reading your opponent can all be calculated. Regarding bad beats, is there a possibility that someone can catch a 2-outer? Yes....that's why there's a 9% (5% on river) chance of WINNING the hand. It's not luck...it's odds. Is there a possibility that a coin flip can go either way? Yes...which is why there are 52%-48% ODDS.
As long as these odds can be calculated and a person has control of what and how he/she acts/bets, then poker will remain a game of skill...online or live.
jenidamoaner owns bodog
about time FishOnTilt gets ranked. The kid is a beast. Midwest FTW.
runs ok!
lol american laws are so retarded.No distinction between playing poker and pornography Geez.
The Land of the Free…
When it comes down to looking at laws that regulate moral issues such as gambling sometimes the logic of lawmakers is truly ridiculous. First and foremost gambling is legal in all 50 states, as long as the government can make money on it. Does that state of Washington not have a lottery, which the government regulates and enjoys money from for programs around the state? If you are arguing that gambling is immoral, then should be programs not be abolished?
If you are arguing that gambling breaks down the moral fiber of society then look at cultures in Europe, their societies seem to be getting along just fine with gambling. Or you could look to America’s past when there weren’t strict gambling laws governing how people could spend their money, and society progressed just fine.
If you are arguing that gambling can be destructive to a person who loses his house or child’s college fun then I would tell you that we allow cigarettes, alcohol and obese people to eat themselves to death at fast food chains. Not only that but when people make destructive decisions such as drinking and smoking our government often ends up paying at least part of the bill through for hospitals through programs like Medicare. Also the government is clearly not that concerned with destructive decision making as long as they are making money of via the state lottery. Can someone not but $500 a day or a college fund buying lottery tickets.
Ultimately poker legislation comes down to the governments need to control or regulate morals. Anyone telling people to join the PPA is correct, until we have a strong voter base then we will not be able to have an impact on the laws of this backward country. As stated before self interest is something government officials understand, so if you don’t vote for them, they will start to listen. We need to tell government officials not to regulate our right to spend the money we make in a manner we choose to do so. I mean historically the regulation of morals has worked so well in the past…That is why the war on drugs and the prohibition are/were successful
Avid poker player and supporter of human rights..
Suicidekng33
Tony
I live in the ppl's republic of Washington. This whole state doesn't make sense...and your'e right about american laws....we are fucking jackasses sometimes
my sister inlaw is a judge in seattle im trying to talk to her and find out what she thinks and if there is anything she can do.
pluv and myself live in washington as well. looks like we may be moving to oregon soon. gg.
Washington State is the one that has the alliance with Iran and Syria right. And isn't Washington State where the International Nazi Hall of Historical Artifacts is located?
And isn't Washington State where they hold all the KuKluxKlan rallies and conferences? Weren't most of the women who got the Salem Witch Trials going recent arrivals from Washington State?
And I'm pretty sure the form of capitol punishment in Washington State is beheading. Also, Washington State is the only place in the union which still allows Honor Killings of any females who are caught out in public not in the company of a male family relative..... course I could be mistaken....
What time on Saturday?
digg at digg.com/.../Appeal_planned_to_overturn_Wash_state_Internet_poker_law
This is ridiculous, people who are appointed judge need to take a logic test. Either this fking judge has no logic or they're being paid by some other interest to make their decision.
The problem with both the bill and www.safeandsecureig.org it does not address potential cheating, taxes, all it does is place burden on other government agencies. I don't about the rest of you... I have yet to see or read about ANY advancement in technology to prevent fraudulent activity.
jim presley
"i'm steve scheffler, i 'm mike schooler. theres never been anyone like me. im from there cloth. there is no one who can match me. my style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable, and i'm just ferocious. i want his heart! i want to eat his children! praise be to ayre!"
congrats good playing with u and gl in vegas
pics or gtfo immfo
Reads like a good old fashion psychology examine is needed... anyway congrats.
So Humble
Left someone out of the article imo.
"and the Bodog $100k saw P5'er "JLizard" take down the 1st place prize of $23,600." ....
... He beat the Bodog $100K's Final Table Shill "JohnnyGstaks" HU. Johnny peeled off $13,600 for his Kid Robot Hoodie fund heading into the WSOP.
pretty insane there Halfrek
Where is the Omaha HI 100r event? I tought there was 2 p5'ers at the FT
ahhh no mention of me at the 2,500 FT? :(
congrats and goodluck @ the wsop
How do we get the password for this tourney??
NVM i found it LOL!
Best article on ceramic poker chips that I've read in a real long time!
Chips Ahoy are delicious!
That the federal government would try to use the excuse of "national security" to hide what they've agreed to shell out in trade concessions is a disgrace.
Further adding to the already mountainous pile of evidence suggesting that the people in Washington D.C. have not only lost touch with the American people, but are willing to alienate the rest of the global community as well, all in the name of perserving their assinine Sacred Cow, the UIGEA.
Votes these corrupt, repressive donkeys out and put some new blood in Washington or this crap will just keep getting worse.
Banning online gambling is in no way alienating the people or other countries... that is absurd.
Many people feel they have been cheated when playing online "regardless if this is true or not" it is their perception. These same people have access to an congressperson or Senator that is voting.
What has not been done very well is to demonstrate how cheating will be dealt with, how under aged kids will be restricted, how to help addicts, how to track potential terrorist activity, how taxes will be paid, and which government agency will oversee/what enforcement powers they will have.
IMO Until the people who feel they have been cheated can feel confrontable and say let's move forward with the changes nothing is going to change.
Another way to look at it... the good people of the USA have let hundreds of thousands of jobs go overseas; Why would the good people of the USA want to let Billions of USA dollars/income/taxes continue to go overseas? How do the good people of the USA benefit?
They will never change... the gov is the reasoon people over seas are burning our flags...
Well done T.J.
Sickoooooo
3 hit wonder
This is so sick...By far the biggest accomplishment in online poker -so far.
nice story!!
Yawn. Easy game imo.
Well done Teejayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
I <3 Teeeeeeeeej what a sicko
WhatArun
The Jealousy I have for you TJ puts me on life tilt.
GREAT JOB BRO!
great job man, congrats
another day @ the office for the guru
oooh i had 13 outs on the turn against you with that KTdd, then they wouldn't be writing this hehehe
also - you play incredibly tight? nice metagaming! you were running everyone over at that final table.
in all seriousness though, every time you were allin i was hoping the other guy would win, because you were the one guy who wasn't playing totally nitty and was stepping up to try and come 1st.
awesome job - EMO_BOYFRIEND
well done homie keep plowing down these majors
I put a further Q&A on my blog here
www.natarem.com/.../ultimate-bet-cheating-scandal
I would love someone to address/question UB directly about their relationship with the KGC. I understand that the KGC is run by the Mohawks of Kahnawake, who are also owners of Tokwiro Inc, who owns both UB and AP.
Isn't it a conflict of interest for the same people to both own the regulatory commission and the gaming sites that the commission is supposed to police?
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
MU are you serious? Somebody like the PPA should take a look at that. Maybe after we get the UIEGA repealed...
Yes, I'm serious. Tokwiro Enterprises (who owns AP and UB) is owned by Joe Norton, who used to be Grand Chief of the Mohawks of Kahnawake a couple years ago. The Kahnawake Gaming Commission is obv run by the Mohawks of Kahnawake. So it may not be the same exact person that runs both UB/AP and the KGC, I would bet the two entities are intimately associated.
Its like having me own a casino in Las Vegas and having my brother be the head of the Nevada Gaming Commission.
pokerworks.com/article-1371.html
I still think I'll play off my last 10 and be done with it.
There HAS to be a regulatory agency that is above reproach for online gaming to survive the long run. The public has to feel secure that the sites are honest. If these breeches continue to occur over and over online gambling is in for a short lived existence. There is just too much exposure in computer program software to allow loose controls. The current "controlling" agency is a joke- may as well have none at all.
Sorry to stray off topic but I am officially in love with MUPP.
Get in line ttg.
lol if you hit the pocket fiver Annie Duke Link it leads you to a page thats entirely blank. She doesnt even have a page
at least they're righting their wrongs- once they get their shit together i think i'tll be good-
In a way, the new owners of UB are getting a bit of a bum rap from the previous owners. Like getting sloppy seconds and getting herpes.
Well hopefully current UB management can right the ship and get their shit together.
On a site note: Would LOVE to see a World Online Gaming Commission started just for this to regulate the other gaming commissions.
for all the sickos who have worked so hard, i hope you get rewarded this summer. good luck all. lol donkaments
Hope one of you guys takes down a bracelet
nice job
ILL. and big ups to fin2win too for 2nd .. he is a sicko too imo
OMG WRETCHY YOUR SO DREAMY!
I'd hit it.
i already did...he was meh
careful aaron....he may had left a little something for you
You guys are sick and twisted Great job Wretchy!!!!
Is Patrik Antonius really a member of Team Full Tilt?
i dont think so
he actually is.
patrik is..his name..or at least the one he used in the HU 25k championship is finddagrind..or findagrind..not sure on the exact spelling..
He has just been signed as the newest member of Team Full Tilt. The only other European besides Gus Hansen. Team Full Tilt is a more exclusive group than being a Full Tilt pro.
I am a member of the U.S Army and a pocketfives member and I play online poker about everyday. Our government will not be satisfied until we show up with Pitchforks and Torches eliminating our freedoms everyday. I am seriously starting to consider getting out of the service. I am really disappointed by my country and I am a true patriot. Sigh, Sigh, Sigh.........
Hope it is worth it U.S. I hope you make enough money selling out the middle class to the rest of the world......
U.S. Sold to China for 100 million Americans, Thank you I didnt
get the brochure........................................
Congrats Rizen!
gratz~
Rizen is a class act all the way around. This is a wise decision by UB.
Watch out the RIZENator is in town!
ftp=cr
ub=pxf
I've always found it interesting that no matter how fucked UB was being run, with multi-accounting, explicitly allowing bots to play, superusers, etc.,....they've picked guys with impeccable reputations to be their online ambassadors. Debo, Kanuck, Shawn and H0 have always been top-notch. Adding Bax and now Rizen only continues that trend.
Congratulations!!!! A great bunch of people to work for!!! Good luck to you!!
what an awesome tourney... you guys really do a great job
i might be hoovering a little
and thats why i put zeejustin on my fantasy poker A-team...cause its just a matter of time before he gets his bracelet.
my question is if stars and/or FTP is going to let him back on. obviously, what he did was wrong and he acknowledged that, and stars said that it would take time at least....
im not saying what either of them should do, im just saying that its an interesting development. gl ZJ
Na i agree, Zeejustin although a "cheater" has won my heart back with this finish. He is really trying to get his name out there and tbh BODOG is a great site for giving him the opp to have a crack @ a few bracelets this year GOO zee. Bl headsup WHY SHOVE fkn river!
Congats man. Much deserved
ROOOOOOOOOOOOTHLUSSSSS
on my birthday whattttttttttt
Look for me in the camo UT hat and UT football jersey pounding beers!!!!
Yellowsub is absolutely filthy...congrats to everyone!
Group hug
wow i didn't know layne flack was bhanks
good job people
I wonder where Halfrek would be if he was a member
i wonder where david hasselhoff would be if he were
Well I guess they have to do something to get people back after the cheating scandal.
well played Jamie. congrats on FTing that bitch and the 28k score, ship the bracelet in the next omaha event imo. MAHOLLA
Good way to get players
bs that they are doing it to get to kn ow the players they just want more money
TODAY is the day folks ....billion hand mark appears to have been hit in the last hour or so....
You need to acquire 50 points today to be invited to the tourney. The Ladbrokes page describing the promo already seems to have been updated with the Monday evening date for the Freeroll.
Cheers & GL,
WarGawd
Good article, shows the arguments for the other side, and some actually do make a lot of sense. If poker popularity is levelling off then this is a good idea to garner more interest.
sick stuff, nice work guys
Thumbs up!
what a hero
Big bazza so glad he is on the right side of variance for this world series now all he has to do is SAVE HIS $$$$$
u guys are sick haha. congratulations!
Great additions. I played on the CDPoker skin of the iPoker network quite a lot in early 2008 and had some nice wins. Will the P5 rankings be able to take into account any of these retro wins?
Shaun "Fukin" Deeb
Ramz (IzabelG) Won the 750k guaranteed for 132,787,50$
Nairb09 finished second
hell MFN Yea
Make sure you contact your representative and let him/her know you support HR5767. My rep is against. Anyone have some spamming software I can use to fill his inbox?
congrats davidi for your win
he took down also the big deal on pokerroom with the nickname "kibul"
Wow, no love. I cashed 40th in this event and not even a mention :(
oops event #39
"We don’t want those in our young people’s bedrooms and in their dorm rooms. We don’t want that addiction at an early age.”
Do they understand that we aren't children?
They'll ship any 18 year old over to Iraq - but 18 year olds at college cannot be exposed to the internet....or they will be ruined forever - our country is such a joke on so many levels.
anyone know how when can find out how to email/regular mail our congressmen about this? this is rediculous. Like EddieO said, we can send an 18 year old to Iraq but he can't play poker? Come on.
While I agree with Sabatosh, and EddieO on the concept that we are old enough to make our own decision. I must say, stop with the lame "we can send an 18 year old over to Iraq....." I'm in the Army (10 years) with 3 tours in Iraq, and me just like them VOLUNTEERED TO GO. It was our and nobody else's decision to go. Thank you
The Constitution and our federal government were both intended to provide protection to those who were not reasonably able to protect themselves. No law should infringe upon any individual's liberties unless in the course of exercising those liberties the rights and freedoms of others are affected. child pornography is prohibited not because it is morally wrong to partake, even though most would agree that it is, but because the production of such materials infringe on the rights of the children subjected to the abuses. It has been legislated that those over the age of 18 are able to give that consent, therefore regardless of moral issues the production of 18+ content is legal.
The point is that gambling by any persons under the age of 18 is not permitted anywhere inside the US. With that said I pose this... whether poker is gambling or a skill game, the government has no right or foundation to deny any citizen the liberty to do so at their discretion. The act of online poker does not infringe on any right or liberties guaranteed to our citizens by our constitution and therefore should not be denied.
The problem is not our government or our constitution, it lies within those men and women holding office having decided that they can regulate the moral decisions of others based on the beliefs held by what they claim to be the majority. This concept is not new you will find it well documented in the history books. However translated it is either socialism or communism and not democracy. Our government exists to protect the individuals that make up our great land. A government by the people, for the people, of the people... a democratic nation that is sworn in writing to protect the inalienable rights of the citizens it is composed of. It is not responsible for the regulation of morals, that argument is clearly defined by the separation of church and state. So please, as patriots, offer me your thoughts and ideas for action.
Nice for that a-hole to group child pornography with internet "gambling", real great point of reference for level of criminality.
@Jlivey:
Yes, you volunteered to go, and the government had no problem at all in letting YOU make the decision whether or not you wanted to put your life at risk for your country.
And yet they claim that we you unable to control yourself in matters of how you spend your own money, and that the government must protect you from yourself.
And that is the inherent hypocrisy with our government. We the people are able, and intelligent when it serves them, but helpless and reckless when it does not.
oh and one more point, an action that is made illegal by a law that is unconstitutional is not a crime. For example, after the repealing of the prohibition laws those found guilty were no longer considered criminals. There is a term for this but I cannot remember it, anyone who knows of the law please post the legal terminology.
None are so blind as those who will not see.
To all the Nazi Morals Police: You ain't gonna stop squat no matter what you do, no matter how much you spend, no matter how long you keep fighting the will of the American people to be free to spend their money on what they want to spend it on.....
Why are they talking about children...all of these "gambling" sites require you to be 18 or 21 anyway so that shouldn't even be the topic of their discussion. They don't even have a proper argument.
IceVenom.. actually they do have a proper argument regarding underage people gambling.
Im willing to bet that are a lot of under 18 people who are members of P5's that play online poker.
Just because the gambling sites TOS say 18 or 21 isnt going to stop a 15 or 16 year old from playing online.
Just saying.
Does anyone know where we can get a list of the 32 congressman voting against the resolution? If my congressman voted against it, I'm going to write him a letter detailing exactly why he won't be receiving my vote in November.
^^^^ i agree
In re: to Jlivey comment.
I thank you, for you service to protecting our freedoms. That's what this country is suppose to be about, maybe we should deploy you here to protect us from the B.S. our lawmakers are handing us. I understand the concerns that some people will make poor judgements when it comes to gambling, but that's life. Just as people gamble with smoking and drinking, but yet Government won't shut those entities down. Cancer, Drunk driving both major killing factors here in the U.S. but there's nothing being done about that, hmm makes you wonder. Government picks and chooses what it wants to control. People like us who can make a great living playing poker online, make people in Government uneasy. It must suck to see an online poker pro making more money than them in a single sunday tourney than what they make in a year. If Government wants to protect me from me, I must say to them, please stop. Let me make my own mistakes. We have bigger issues in life than online gambling. Good luck at the tables all.
I mean it sounds like their whole argument is "we won't let adults gamble because it might affect the children." Give me a break. How about we don't allow adults to drink alcohol or smoke or anything else that might influence children.
Trust me, I'm all about protecting kids, but I don't think adults should lose their freedom over it. This is so retarded.
This YouTube video has the full vote recorded. I'm still hunting down a complete list:
www.youtube.com/watch
there are a number of watchdog organization that will be happy to provide a full list not to mention all votes are a matter of public record. ill see what i can find but im willing to bet the ppa is going to have it available soon.
WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!?
Hmmm... I can jump in my car and drive a half hour to an "Indian" casino. I can go to Nevada to a casino, or even (not that I care to) a legal whorehouse. But in the privacy of my own home, I cannot play poker? I'm not a child and my offspring are no longer children. My money is all legally earned and fully taxed... I can (and do) buy alcohol, tobacco, and firearms legally. I can buy dangerous drugs, prescribed by a doctor, legally. But I cannot participate in a voluntary, non-violent recreation of my own choosing and within the privacy of my own home because someone else might have an addictive personality and foul up his own life?
I'm fed up with "for the children". I was a child once myself, for about as many years as any other human being (although, apparently, congresscritters tend to remain children throughout their lives), and now I'm about as grown up as any other adult. Let me live my own life, free from the interference of those who mistakenly believe it is their duty and obligation to be my mommy and keep me out of trouble.
"Land of the free" my hairy ass!
according the youtube clip, which i am assuming was correct it said the vote was 32-32, which still defeats the bill, but it wasnt 35-32
I just watched some of the proceedings with various people. These people speaking out against this bill either don't have a clue or live some very sheltered lives or both.
meh watching them give their oral votes really tilts me. I WILL be sending out letter to EVERY member in the house financial services committee and I really hope that all of you who have complained rightfully so) will do the same and not re-elect these ppl who do not represent our views.
Since when are college student considered kids? I would also like them to vote SPECIFICALLY on the merits of poker and not all that other b.s. I would bet 50% of government officials have played some form of poker in their lifetime.haha esp during college.
Hey guys, see the full vote list on my blog, with direct link to representatives contact information. Please contact your representative and let them know you are a proud poker player!
legalonlinepoker.blogspot.com
Isaac
Very Nice Win Sir !!!
Can anyone explain to me very quickly what its saying?
so did we lose or win?>
I just watched the video and the ending is retarded. The whole part about the "no's" outweighed the "i's" is an exaggeration. He asks "all in favor say I" and you have a number of people say I. Then he asks "all those opposed say no" and you have about the same number of people yell at the top of their lungs "no." Just because they were louder doesn't make it a majority. It's so retarded and all the people there are all joking around like this isn't even an important issue.
It underscores what's really wrong with the country today that these Congressman take their energy and use it for this. Why not find a useful outlet for that passion? Harness it to stop something that is meaningful to stop, e.g. child pornography. These officials, who are supposed to be a representative of the people, are not using logic on what to fight. If you asked 100 people what's more important, stopping sexual predators or internet 'gambling', you may get one response on gambling (he's the sexual offender), but they chose to fight this only because a vocal few say it's 'what's right' and they are the ones who will vote them into office again. Makes me sick.
this country will NEVER regulate online gaming IMO. i have accepted this fact, and my thoughts are 'accept it and hope status quo continues. we are playing, depositing, and withdrawing despite the fact that its illegal.
my local congressman is a 'friend' of the 'family'. he reports that it is washington's feelings that online gaming is run by international criminals, with rigged software, and questionable associations/business practices.
it will remain the official stance of the majority of politicians until the sites/thier lobbyists buy a group of US politicians favor. thus is the state of American politics.
Decisions such as this are the very reason why poker players need to unite to stand up for our rights. I urge you to go to www.pokerplayersalliance.org and join the PPA today. The web site also has a very easy to fill out form for you to contact your elected officials.
I counted y-32, n-31.
What gives?
"Bachus claimed there is overwhelming support for banning internet gambling across the country"
Well, we POLL everything else going on in this country, and elect administrations that seem to operate based on polling data. So, okay then, let's see that poll. Let's take and document a true poll across the country to support (or refute) Mr. Bachus' claim.
I'd love to see a good, solid Gallup poll on precisely this issue.
Here's the link to the official voting record. If your Congressmen voted for or against the amendment, tell them that you appreciated what they did or that what they did will cost them your vote in November:
www.house.gov/.../110th_fc_record_vote_113.pdf
gboro is sexy
gboro is smutty
The fight to save on-line poker is going to have to be waged by every player, individually and collectively. Start making waves with your national-level senators and reps. Otherwise, the right-wing extremists will continue to have free reign to take away our freedoms and treat us like criminals.
this is such b/s!!!!!
OH CANADA
another raeson why u should keep supporting the idiototic republican party......such donks
The unfortunate reality of this is that the world bends and forms under the flawed leadership of politics. We have candidates in office now who, for the most part, are more concerned in implementing ideas/laws that will serve their own personal interests and agendas instead of doing what's in the best interest for us. Republican and Democrat have nothing to do with this. If we do not make them understand that what the government is doing is no different than what any other repressing government does, then the US will be doomed to a sociological society and will no longer be considered a democracy. It's ironic that the very thing our troops are fighting for around the world, is the very thing that the US is becoming....
in
oh boy
nice work Chris...
Sunday Mill win...
impressive
mhreppaments
Well done Matt, been a long time coming. Congrats and good luck in the Main Event!
i am unfortunately on the bad list.... sigh
I played with some of those user account names and was never refunded a dime from Ultimate Bet. HMMM explain that one. Although my play wasnt thousands of hrs at high limits I do remember several hours of play with some of these cheater accounts named in the scandal at the higher cash stakes.
There is a little problem with her story. The new owner also received the source code. The CEO and its team should have gone line by line through the code. Although the site software may seem long. I think it is shorter that you think such that any programmer could find holes within a day, especially a hole that could be used to see hole cards..
The price you pay for cheating is you go out of buisness. We as players should use this as an opportunity to show all the other sites that probably have similar software issues the consequences for cheating your players. You go out of business! The integrity of the site hosting the pokergames is the most crucial issue in this community. It's a no brainer. DEATH TO ULTIMATE BET!
Pocket Fives- plz delete Annie Dukes p5s account. She's only here to cloud and pollute this site with Ultimate Bet propaganda. She’s has never contributed anything positive for online poker. Besides why allow such a muppet/lousy poker player, who supports a cheating poker site, to have an account?
UB is a joke. Why wasn't EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR refunded to those who were cheated? Seems the scandal is only going to end when UB goes out of busines. Annie Duke, you should be ashamed to be affiliated in any way with UB.
I dont think it was UB cheating their customers. It was basically a subcontractor. UB is a good site to play on with huge mtt overlays. You guys are missing out.
Somebody throw duclover some common sense
im still in too....lol where is my name 22,875
Well done Jason and Craig Gray! Go Portland and FTT! I'm going to try to make it down there in a week or so. Hope you guys are still rockin the tourney then. Anyone know if Danny Radditz or Steve Lovejoy are still in or played their Day 1 yet? They're both from Portland/Vancouver too.
good friend of mine 'the visionary' is still in and on 36k.....take it down daydream!!
I'm still in, I have 46,675. I forgot to tell Pocket 5's Live that I was playing. My name is Cody Shedd
I'm out!
Good luck people....
how is scott sctrojans freeman doing? I don't see him in the chip counts
how is darkchek_ doing?
How is ender555 doing?
where is ender555????
Any reason that Neddy Flanders chip count isn't listed?
How's Neddy doing? Many of us are hurting to know.
Thanks
Rank Chicagocards1 immediately. SHIP IT TO CHICAGO. gl Mohsin
MAHOLLA
I guess P5s is too busy tracking the big guns but if anyone is interested I survived day 1C with 25k.
Hog
cwp394 made it to day 2 also yesterday with like 58k..no love
18k
not trying to make a brag comment but im ranked 65th before today not re-entering
David,
I believe I did register. If you need any other info, you can text me at 412-551-1876.
Ron Weingrad
BigHog1
Thanks for keeping me on my toes. I've got that edited in there now. Congrats on the nice score. I hope to see you chip up nicely on Day 2a of WSOP Main Event so we can cover your final table appearance in November on P5's Live :)
Best of luck!
David
sounds like a brag post to me ferg... lol nice score. peace.
MBN to be chip leader of wsop 1C and and make a final table of a sunday major.
The stories about ub keep getting more and more disturbing. Aside from the software issue i caugt two players red handed colluding against me, they even had the balls to admit at the table when i confronted them. I sent the game and chat info to UB and after their so called investigation they found no wrong doing. WTF u mean no wrong doing look at the play and look at the chat they only admit you dumb fuks. even their TV show was rigged so annie dukes uglyazz boyfriend and that freak hollywood dave could keep advancing. I just deleted UB from my computer and i encourage anyone who reads these posts to do the same . DEATH TO UB.
that mustve been one hell of a cheeseburger
congrats all, hopefully Ill see my name up there one day
55k here
Gank Out?
Thanks, Devin and Caretaker. Gank is right around 23K in chips, so I've added him in. I'm looking forward to watching him play on Day 2B on Wednesday.
that was no chesseburger..that was a super high 5 furburger.
Im in with 59K
not sure what day he played but Eck is sitting on 49,975
26k here down from 58k after running queens into aces on last level....sigh oh well on to day 2
I have 66,375. My brother burton1080 has 29kish.
gl gl Jensen Brothers.......
bigstrosfan, your statement bothers me. Past is past, but what u say is concerning. I just dont think its right to blast Annie Duke the way she was blasted. Not to mention, I'm running well on UB and enjoy their tourneys. Maybe I will start to play PS or FT more
Well, I actually have 138k at the end of day 1d. Gl to the rest of the p5rs.
Yay! Should we really be cheering unconstitutional organizations (WTO) and their attacks on U.S. sovereignty?
KT ng vs AT bvb AK2T6 in the last level for 40kish, just 8k left for wed
best of luck to everyone still in
duclover do you notice you are the only one who has a positive thing to say about UB of the posts that are here. And Annie Duke is a liar no money has been refunded you are a fool to continue playing at a site that supports cheating and tried to cover it up misery loves company i guess
stros fan, I'm up pretty well on UB. That is why I continue to play. I suppose your also a Cub fan because everyone else is (despite your name)
A sport???? I am going to stop working out as of now.
TID BAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOoooooo BAX ! Run this to the FT !!!!1
please change that picture Jamie.
Thx.
Oh....and goooooooooo BAX and ROOTH (and everyone else)!
BeL0W
JOHNY IS THE MAN! just give him the 9million now....end this little sharade....go bax.................
Go Bax Go!!! (but please lose the UB shirt)
Bax will ship the whole thing, gg field
Hey guys,
Hope u all are having fun out there!
Just droping u a note about another P5er that has been forgotten throughout the tourney...
Rcaiaffa, from Brasil, he finished w 310k on day 2b, that put him among the top 10 at the end of the day...
G'luck Cliff!
726k
jon turner has a nice stack as well (according to pokernews). might want to add him to the list.
umm Jon Pearljammer Turner at 726,500?
"Dag Martin dmmikkel Mikkelsen ended the day with 931K in chips, the fifth largest stack overall"
"Owen ocrowe Crowe (pictured at left) wound up with 960K chips at the end of Day 3, the seventh largest chip stack overall"
wat
And I have 216k....
Brian Eckstrom at 146k
What is David "Bakes" Baker at?
I have 462k , gl p5ers still in
what is HB hitmans real name? must not be right on P5s hard to follow
yaaaadaaaaaa!
Yada? Really? Thats helpful
what about Paul "ComeOnPhish" Lieu. word is he's up around the 400k mark.
Rafael Caiaffa (rcaiaffa) is still there playing with somewhere around 700k chips.
Only brazilian left and he is a P'5s
355k going into day 5 jeff anderson
so what pros are left?
Thanks for the updates guys :) I've updated the chip counts to include Rafael & Jeff. Best of luck!
is pearljammer still in the main event?
go ocrowe bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
^^ cus he sucks.
TID GBECKS.
Thanks for the heads up, ricardogcl.
Thanks for ruining the integrity of poker for years to come. Truly a top notch individual. Was it worth it? Are you sorry?
Man...a former WSOP ME winner in a cheating scandal...thats brutal...
Why the hell are Annie Duke and Phil Hellmuth still allowing their names to be associated with UB?
Seriously, doesnt the considerable majority of Hellmuth's money come from his reputation? As such, shouldnt he do with Chan and Brunson have already done and get his own site with his own name attatched to it?
So who are the individual principals of Ultimate Bet, Tokwiro and Blast Off Ltd?
Im waiting for the film....Endless Cheaters and 1 Cup
gooo Toadstoooooooooooooool. Aaron Gordon FTW hoo yah.;
*reaches for popcorn*
nat is the most awesomest...
tyty
UB still claims my name wasnt seated with any of the user names that cheated. BSBSBS!!!!!! no integrity whatsoever
Any chance of him getting punished for this? If not it will happen again.
no love for my 3rd place in the bdog 100k?
I remember there was a poster sometime ago posting this information and no one believed the poster.
Nearly everyone said "the poker rooms have too much to lose" wonder where those posters are now?
Outright theft of this magnitude ~ let alone by an actual owner/former owner of an on-line poker site ~ is more than enough excuse for the right-wing Family Values Nazi Police to shut down the whole net.
Real nice going there, Mr. Hamilton. I hope you spend the rest of your life in deep paranoia, looking anxiously over your shoulder for impending prosecution or retribution.
GO OCROWE!!! WAY TO REPRESENT CANADA MAN!!!
ummm your Ultimate Bet is totally wrong because i got 10th for 2,000..and my name is MECU not St. Louis, or AAA Godfather
I encourage all poker players to beat the hell out of Mr. Hamilton if anyone should ever run into him.
quite impressive response
dip is such a crab
Russ Hamiltons mom should have swallowed him.
Let's hope, for his sake, that he lives in a gated community. Having his home address out there opens up a hornet's nest...
RUSS SHAMILTON
I take back all defending of UB. All of you were right. But, you still shouldnt be so hard on Annie Duke
For those who havent been following the other thread on 2+2 (sorry if i cant mention the other site but this is too important)
Nat has been threatened and posted about an hour ago that he is distancing himself from the search for the truth.
gl scott.... dammm FT is soooo far away ;/
Group hug... congratulations.
Go Canada!
Darus Suharto is indonesian, not canadian. woooot, go Darus!
I think I would have liked to keep going I'm running good I want to make a move for the top spot the next day. Waiting 4 months coming back running bad. At least you get the 900k who gets the interest on the 24 mil?
my head hurts
"Alfonse D’Amato, the former three-time Republican Senator from New York and current Chairman of the Poker Players Alliance, has publicly endorsed McCain for President"
omg...no wonder we aren't getting anywhere!
I cannot respect anyone who would ever vote for mcCain.
I'm so disgusted by this. Who's to say all cheating has ceased and there won't be another scandal 3 years from now that's uncovered it?
For all those who think "This guy is too lucky....it's like he sees all our cards", he did. Probably still does via another "security glitch".
I'd recommend not using UB.
Boycott!!
Actually, I am canadian but was born in Indonesia.
The interest will be distributed to the players.
Sounds like a major leap forward for the future of online poker in the United States!!!!
Great work. Hope Congressman McDermott can get his passed. I'll write my congressmen and tell them I'm supporting this.
seems to me if a congressmen/senator votes against this, or if it gets vetoed, it would be obv that they hate America's children./
If we are required to pay tax on earnings, hopefully they will also include a tax break for the many tournaments we invest in and DONT cash. I say leave it as is, they arent enforcing it anyway.
busto?
seems like bad news to me.
Sounds like good news to me. The travel channel and GSN are small time stations. Fox Sports is a much more major station.
Now if only they could fix the blind structure so the poker could be interesting to watch and more fair to the players ...
1 hour? that sux
mash en tuck et...peee qwat
Just one question-
Will they finally be in HD!?!?!
A one hour show? No winner at the end of the night? Way to take a good thing and screw it up royally. nh gg gl
You are currently required to pay taxes on the earnings anyway. You do get to deduct entry fees that you don't cash in (losses). There are a lot of things the IRS doesn't enforce, but if you start depositing tens of thousands of dollars in poker winnings into your bank account without reporting it as incoming, you can bet the IRS will come a knocking.
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING
show some integrity pocket fives. enough of UB
show some integrity biron.
If you don't have anything good to say don't say it.
there are plenty of threads to voice your opionion in.
honestly don't put this crap up here!
ughhhh
seriously????
What if some people think what Biron said is good? Are we censoring the comment option now?
A lot of people feel like him, including me. Seeing this shit on the front page is sickening. Actively promoting a site that has cheated poker player? Seriously?
lol...go bond
*while shaking head*
a brief thought came to mind...
ohhhh how i miss the RandonMan
meh
the cheats line pockets of many.
CLASS act P5's
wpgg...
kind of ironic these guys abide by US contracts but when it comes to the core of it all they hide behind corrupt walls of a lawlessness
FUCK UB and all their coherts enough is enough.
i know that you guys need to make a living, but i hope sometime later down the line if not now that ties become eventually separated w UB/AP.
Good job everyone... sick year for p5s!
bertminatti owns!
Give that man a raise!
<3 Bert
Brett, Jessica and Jill all did an amazing job at the WSOP, and I'm sure everyone I didn't meet from P5s did great also.
Some sites were constantly reporting the small (but important) details of hands incorrect, while P5s was really on the money.
Hope to see you guys again next year..
-Daniel
Brett reads my soul. He is the best... ever.
Much love,
Jill
<3 bert
Titan still not available for U.S. players?
Gooooooo Eisenhower!!!, TS 4 life! :D
AJK ftw.. A5 v AA, A9 v KQ : )
So Dipthrong didn't win any majors this weekend?
May the force be with you iMEGA.
congrats
now hopefully after you pay all your stakers youll have some money to stop plaguing the cash games with shortstacking
" UB and the KGC have since refunded money to players who were affected and removed the vulnerability from UB’s servers"
Im not sure that line is really true....as there are many people still owed from new accounts found. Right?
Cereus, the AirTran of Online Poker.
This might explain p5s, N 82, and other's support of the new management through out the scandals. They probably knew a new and improved version of the two sites was on the way. But I am a little thrown off by how the article seems to state that cheating scandal is over and all funds have been returned. I was under the impression that many were still waiting on money owed and those responsible were not just NioNio..
I like that AP/UB is attempting to improve and move beyond their recent scandals, but to represent that the situations have been resolved is a little off base. I sincerely hope that part of this merger includes restitution to those affected and justice to those responsible.
They "led the charge?"
I'll sign up right after I buy stock in that new Enron/WorldCom conglomerate.
This is very irresponsible journalism by pocketfives. Whatever happened to social responsibility?
"UltimateBet and the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (KGC) have led the charge to investigate the actions leading up to January’s revelation ..."
Didn't know nat, 2+2, marco and other forum members were part of the kgc
good idea for them, but i hope it fails miserably
100000000000000% cosign with gbmantis.
Altria Group, Inc. (NYSE: MO) (previously named Philip Morris Companies Inc.), based in Henrico County, Virginia, is the parent company of Philip Morris USA, John Middleton, Inc. and Philip Morris Capital Corporation, and is one of the world's largest tobacco corporations. In addition, Altria Group, Inc. has a 28.7% economic and voting interest in one of the world's largest brewing companies, UK based SABMiller plc. It is a component of the S&P 500 and was a component of the Dow Jones Industrial Average until February 19, 2008.
On January 27, 2003, Philip Morris Companies Inc. changed its name to Altria Group, Inc. On March 30, 2007, a spin out of Kraft Foods subsidiary (publicly traded since 2001) was concluded through distribution of the remaining stake of shares (88.1%) to Altria shareholders. As a result, Altria no longer holds any interest in Kraft Foods. On March 28, 2008 a similar spin out of Philip Morris International was completed with 100% of shares being distributed to Altria shareholders.
Guess what - the cigarettes that Altria makes STILL cause cancer. Name change still doesn't change that.
I'm super cereal you guys.
This is stupid, both sites table views and lobby are terrible, Full Tilt and Poker Stars still are the supreme
Both sites GUI have always been terrible and there's a good chance you're getting rolled by a superuser why would anyone consider getting their money anywhere near these piles of crap
Disappointing article. When did P5's become a PR firm?
Dan, the phrase "led the charge" damages P5's credibility here. We all know AP and UB dragged their feet and tried to sweep the problems under the rug until facing it was unavoidable. I know you are trying to walk a tight-rope here between being responsible to the community while protecting your revenue stream from these two sites, but your write-up here along with the KGC's press release are spin-control pieces of revisionist history.
Any mention of this new network should have begun with a discussion of security issues and the ramifications this merger will have. Otherwise you're taking two sites known for a poor security backbone, that were lax and not proactive at all in policing fraud, and combining them in a way to easily enable MORE cheating as players will be able to create, or may already have, accounts on both sites.
At the very least, it will make it that much easier for players to change their names to go undetected without even needing the inside help that nio nio and company did.
"Poker sites around the world will be getting a run for their money in August, when CEREUS is expected to launch and quickly be a force in the marketplace. Coming off a pair of scandals involving these two online poker rooms, it is welcome news."
To whom exactly is this welcome news? This isn't news at all, it is an advertisement bought and paid for by Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet/Cereus Poker. Don't insult your readers' intelligence by trying to claim this is an unbiased review of a "new" poker room.
"UltimateBet and the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (KGC) have led the charge to investigate the actions leading up to January’s revelation that several user accounts, including NioNio, were experiencing astronomically high return on investments."
This is a flat-out lie. I say lie, and not mistake, because quite frankly it is not believable that you aren't aware of who it is that was ACTUALLY responsible for "leading the charge" of this investigation.
This is ridiculous, if anyone comes to think of it TWO SITES caught cheating, and there both going to join together, does anyone see anything wrong there? Or let me guess " It won't prolly never happen again" Wouldn't that be something if it did??
also 100000% cosign with GBmantis on this one
lmao... imo F both these sites... I hope everyone boycotts em...
You have to be kidding? "Led what charge" right up until it became so widely known that it was impossible to keep under wraps did the "independent" investigation begin.
If they want a fair shake - start with the TRUTH. P5 - don't try to give them cover - to continue will cause P5 to reduce it's reputation further than it has by giving cover to fraud - fraud that you know was perpetrated.
Start with the truth not a transparent revision of what all but the most ignorant, unintelligent sycophant knows to be true.
What is wrong with you people?
Merlin333
does this mean the two will become just one site????
el oh el. Keep leading the way AP and UB!
Congrats James on your signing and your marriage. Best of luck.
Mike
Jim gettin locked up all over the place.
Congrats jcamby well deserved
hate how p5s and big name players are pushing UB so hard.
in a non-related comment: i would definitely consider selling my sole to satan if i had the opportunity.
Thats exactly what we need, Congress funding another bullshit program by finding yet another way to tax its citizens
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." ..... Mark Twain
WWSDD?
juzlearnin took down both the 30k & 150k today on Cake Poker
nice day for intervention