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Let the Kids Play?

By grapsfan | Published Sep 05 2008, 08:28 PM

I’m consistently amazed at how good people can get at poker.  It’s such a complicated game, with layer upon layer of thinking and deception.  Mike Sexton’s catchphrase “a minute to learn, a lifetime to master” is true for people of any age.  So when mastery comes in just a few years, and emerges in someone still in his or her teens, I am impressed, jealous, and a little saddened, all at the same time.  There are hundreds of kids out there who are better at poker than I will ever be, with more coming around every year.

In an open, capitalistic, competitive society, nothing matters but your ability to do the job, to win or lose, to succeed or fail on your own merits.  Sounds great, doesn’t it?

Unfortunately, this ideal doesn’t exist in any aspect of our lives.  There are always rules and regulations.  I could write perfect computer software, but if I don’t graduate from college, it will be very difficult for me to make a living.  Industry states some jobs require a degree.  There are mandatory and optional pre-requisites for every profession, which have evolved over time and may take years to change.  The NBA took 25 years to allow players straight out of high school, then another 35 to decide to establish the minimum age of 19.

Governments, in conjunction with societal standards, define other pre-requisites for what we can and can’t do.  I may have the greatest hand-eye-foot coordination in the world, and raced go-karts and dirt bikes since I was a kid…but in the United States, I can’t get a license to drive a car or motorcycle until I’m 16.  Similarly, I have to be 18 to vote, 21 to legally drink alcohol.

As with private enterprise, societal standards take generations to evolve.  After the repeal of alcohol prohibition in the United States, approximately 50 years passed before the drinking age was changed from 18 to 21.  A conservative movement in our society worked with a sympathetic president and Congress to drive the change.

OK, by now, I hear you saying, “geez, Graps, get to the point already.”  So I will.

The gambling industry, and specifically online poker, is under similar attack from a conservative movement, with the ear of a sympathetic president and Congress.  The acceptable age for gambling, throughout most of the world, is 18.  Anyone caught playing at a younger age is breaking applicable laws.  It doesn’t matter if they’re a master card counter, ready and able to “beat the dealer” at blackjack.  It doesn’t matter if they understand know perfect probability to make optimal craps wagers, and manage money well enough to never go broke.

The conservative movement attacking us for gambling, in any form, is looking for any example of our depravity to provide ammunition for their cause.  A minister’s son robs a bank to pay off his online poker losses?  A kid steals his mom’s credit card and maxes it out in an online casino?  Someone lies about their age to get around a site’s Terms of Service?

The enemies of our game care not about whether an underage person is successful, only that they are underage.  Which brings us to "FishOnTilt."  Like "Andy McLeod" and "JJProdigy" before him, his skills are undeniable, as is his financial result applying said skill.  In our little corner of the Web, underage poker prodigies are to be admired, and their games studied so we can play more like they do.

However, our little corner of the Web doesn’t exist anymore if we don’t act for the big-picture health of the online poker industry.  For the benefit of all of us, we have to care and make decisions based not on what we believe is acceptable, but what those who don’t share our ideals believe is acceptable.  To that end…


It must be irrelevant if a 16-year-old is making consistent money…

It must be irrelevant if a 16-year-old is good enough to play poker for a living…


It must be irrelevant what personal opinion any of us hold in terms of poker, its status as a game of skill, and whether or not it should be lumped in with house-edge casino games for regulatory purposes…

While our game, and our right to play it, is under scrutiny and restriction, we cannot afford to demand the capitalistic, competitive ideal.  We have to understand what the enemies of the game may consider acceptable, and keep it in higher regard than our own opinions.  We have to be willing to hold ourselves, and those around us, to the standards and practices others are trying to hold us to.  If we know the player next to us is underage, we have the same obligation to the health of our poker society as we do to turn in the 14-year-old neighbor boy taking his parent’s car out for a joyride, or the drunk driver in the car in front of us.

Personally, I wish this wasn’t happening.  Personally, I hope "FishOnTilt" comes back on his 18th birthday, and dominates the game the way he does now.


But he shouldn’t play until that day arrives.

 


Comments
 

snaggs said:

I was about to post to a certain "I got caught" thread this exact message.  Not only for political reasons, but for every fishontilt there's how many kids blowing through parent's credit cards?  This is ammo we don't need to give those who are trying to kill online poker!

snaggs

September 5, 2008 8:47 PM
 

dTm328 said:

well played graps

September 5, 2008 9:15 PM
 

yjbrewer said:

great read.  i thought u were in left field for a moment but you brought on home.  

September 5, 2008 9:44 PM
 

kevin070 said:

Great read like always graps. You are actually wrong on one point though. The conservative movement actually doesn't think anyone at any age should be able to gamble or play poker.

September 5, 2008 11:04 PM
 

CASHRUS said:

Well said.  Others in this community would open another account and proudly admit it.  Thanks for suggesting all the rules should be followed, not just the ones we agree with. I thought I was the only one.

September 5, 2008 11:05 PM
 

thelandlord said:

grapsfan for president

September 6, 2008 1:37 AM
 

sprstoner said:

i think with parental permission, any age should be aloud to play.

September 6, 2008 2:37 AM
 

wonglondo said:

all very well said and very true, graps. however i regret that FOT's outing by brsavage seem to be based on his connection to JJ and how the JJ empire supposedly stole money from the community using that account.

There are waay many more underage trolls in p5/online poker. I certainly hope that brsavage will investigate, catch and report more of them, winning or losing player. This way i know his intent is true and not based on groundless cheating accusation or jealousy towards FOT only.

September 6, 2008 2:45 AM
 

RustyNail said:

I know I go completely against many people on this site on this but I don't want 16 year olds playing poker period. I don't condone it at all and if that makes me old and outdated so be it. I say think about what you are saying REAL HARD before you condone it in society, or IMPLY that it might be ok. I'm not out to win any popularity contest.

September 6, 2008 2:56 AM
 

Mr_Hand said:

I am a parent of 6. My oldest is almost 13. He will not play for real money until he is 18. Its that simple. I wont even let him play the game at all(for play chips) until he shows me some more maturity. Its just a game, but it can be very addictive. I dont want poker to be an obstical for his future, I want it to be a great opportunity.

I am also a HUGE conservative, but I am very open-minded. There are many things my fellow conservatives will see danger in and become scared of it. I believe if it is done in moderation, just about anything is ok. It drives me nuts to see a pastor say Im sinning from online poker(when I win money for my family) while he spends 40k for a golf membership. Who is being irresponsable?

September 6, 2008 5:59 AM
 

dgillis said:

Its a sad fact of life that you must pick your battles carefully in order to win wars... even if you feel very strongly about this particular issue,  I'm afraid in the grand scheme of things it just not time to fight this battle. We  just cant afford to give those who oppose poker more resources to use against us. It is unfair that this article will be glossed over by most in favor of some of the comments made in OT... but life is unfair i guess, I would urge you however to always be weary of what you say, becuase you can bet our opposition will be watching.

September 6, 2008 9:38 AM
 

20_lb_stack said:

Good read as usual.

September 6, 2008 5:01 PM
 

pocketelevens said:

how do you all know about brsavage and this incident and where can I read about it?

September 8, 2008 11:16 AM
 

THK711 said:

Very well written article. Fun to read. I understand about the underage, Im sorry to say I played from when I was 16 online, Im now 19 and mostly play Live because of all the goverment issues, etc.. But once again great article.

September 10, 2008 2:17 PM
 

StudentOfBlaze said:

It's so easy for kids to fly under the radar now-a-days, just keep your mouth shut about your age, keep chat to a minimum, and keep building.

September 28, 2008 11:21 AM
 

gert30k said:

i would have appreciated some real arguments which supported the authors deluted theory.

if a child is allowed to play sports, why not poker? in fact, it has been proven already, that poker has good influence on kids, because, as to be succesful in it you need the similir virtues as in real life: discipline, patience, thought-proccess and so on, you know it, you write about all the time.

those who can't subscribe to this have failed, not only as a parent, but also as human.

October 2, 2008 4:53 PM
 

gert30k said:

i would have appreciated some real arguments which supported the authors deluted theory.

if a child is allowed to play sports, why not poker? in fact, it has been proven already, that poker has good influence on kids, because, as to be succesful in it you need the similir virtues as in real life: discipline, patience, thought-proccess and so on, you know it, you write about all the time.

those who can't subscribe to this have failed, not only as a parent, but also as human.

October 2, 2008 4:53 PM

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