Poker Articles

SHEEEEEEP FTW

two questions, first u say the reraise is the most standard raise in hand #1, is this really true....i know it may be semi-close but i would think flatting is a little more common, wud u say play of choice is to reraise 6 handed and flat 9 handed?

hand #2 are there any other reasons for the fold besides those already stated?

great article, specific hand analyses that are in-depth are my favorite....

"Okay, I'm just kidding about Peachy. She owned my soul in these two hands, which leads me to my real third point: there's no shame in being pushed around by the same player, at least like I was in these two hands...Instead, I put my vendetta to the side and made an incredibly difficult decision to the best of my ability. You should do the same. "

Some very important words I needed to hear, thank you.  I suspect many will benefit from your sage advice.  Again, thank you so much.

you folded the joint x2.... do you sleep with the light on?

Calibre, in Hand #1 I really don't like flatting with JJ in that spot. I almost certainly have the best hand preflop, and there's too much dead money in the pot to flat and give the initial raiser the edge heading into the flop. If a flop comes with an over or two and I get bet into, my hand turns into mush. I'd rather re-raise, gain the edge in the pot and give myself a chance to take down the pot preflop. A flat call pre would be pretty much slowplaying a hand I'd rather not slowplay. I'm asking for trouble with a flat call 6-handed, given our stacks, at that stage of the tournament. I really don't think it's optimal to flat JJ pre in that spot.

shawry, I do not sleep with the light on. They were both difficult laydowns, ESPECIALLY the AQ fold. It's not normal.

marinersheep - Thank you for the hand analysis; it is very informative to follow a top players' thought process through very difficult spots.  

Regarding hand #2, was your decision to lay it down influenced at all by the fact that she got you off the JJ a few hands ago? What I mean is, are you thinking "ok - in her mind she just pushed me out of a hand, so is she going to try it again so soon with something that doesn't beat top pair/kicker, knowing that I might have extra motivation to beat her in a pot?"

Marinersheep - Great hand analysis. My only concern is this, with AQ on such a safe board, and you only sense Peachy has AA or KK, you gain no information by checking the flop. I think a more optimal play is to bet half to three quarters of the pot on the flop, that way you don't give Peachy the option to take it down with air. In her mind, she knows she just made you lay down a high PP, AK or AQ pre-flop, so when you check she figures a strong bet may do it again. If she comes over the top on the flop, your decision is still tough, but I think less difficult. No real problem with the fold though, after all, you still have chips!

lol ur a nitball

thanks, very helpful for a noob like me.

Peachymer quote"I knew he was a nit so I bet, I was painting my toes at the time...don't remember what I had"

Kelly - I would say that my laydown was somewhat influenced by her previous re-raise. A lot of me was saying, "There's no way she can be pushing me off the practi-nuts twice"...but as I evaluated and evaluated, I'm sure it was the correct laydown.

uwhats - I disagree; if I bet, she could just call behind. Once that happens, I'm pretty screwed and feel as if I've limited my information. By checking (and when I do, remember that I believe I'm slowplaying), and then calling on such a dry board, I think it makes it much more difficult for her to fire a second bullet committing me to the pot.

UhhMee - GFY ;)

Junnie - If Peachy actually said that, it makes me that much more confident in the laydowns I made.

I Spew - These aren't common laydowns. They come from thought processing and intuition. If you're unable to ever fold these and play like a robot, GL. These two hands were not normal folds, especially with AQ.

Thanks all for the feedback.

I asked her on AIM...she said she had 99 the first hand and JJ the second...this is a classic case of you thinking ur way out of chips...nice going and nice article genius

JunnieBrown said:

I asked her on AIM...she said she had 99 the first hand and JJ the second...this is a classic case of you thinking ur way out of chips...nice going and nice article genius

IS this a level?

Peachy is very good---definitely capable of betting 25k and folding to 25k more IMO on the turn...she sensed your fear/weakness and knew you were only coming over the top with AQ+ only (which you DIDN'T represent), and got a laydown.  She's not betting that strong on such a dry flop and turn with a monster like AA or QQ when you played your hand that weak imo.

in the first hand why in the world would she shove kk aa when  a min raise would probally induce a call or shove from u. but i do like fold in second hand.ty for thought process.

Is this to get yourself a super tight image?

Def not a criticism to you.. but i dont fold Hand 1 as the speed she done it does not change (especially tighten) her range, as you mentioned you had 3 bet a couple of times before, and she may have already decided, if you were to 3 bet, that she was definately going to 4 bet you. Against a random its closer, against a good Lagy player, ita lot more likelyto be a steal.

and i dont like how u played Hand 2 and def think she sensed weakness and tried to get you off it.

I can understand fold in hand 1 being so close to the final table and not wanting to race with perky showing great strength but hand 2 is just too nitty. If you are prepared to fold AQ on that board then there is no reason for you to be raising it in the first place. Fold it pf next time.

I know that when you are getting close to the end your senses are heightened and you don't want to do anything stupid with 1st prize within reach but hand 2 was spew. Some chance you may have been right on this occasion but the majority of the time you're folding best hand here. You checked to feign weakness on flop and someone took the bait. Then you chickened out on turn.

I'm not saying you are weak or anything but the way you played the hand I'd probably be firing a second barrel at you with hands worse than AQ and so would a lot of players.

I dont paint my own toenails...please!!

Busted

i like the laydown the first hand....second hand i like leading out on the flop. If you play it the way you did i cant see how you dont check raise all in on the turn.  You basically set yourself up to be outplayed by a good player in my opinion.  Enjoyed the article ty.

Dude, you got OWNED BIG

I got curious about that player and she had really excelent results, so i went to Pokerstars to check out how she plays. She is all about agression, if she catchs a piece of the flop, she acts like she's got the nuts, if she has a draw acts like it was again the nuts, and if she has air, she plays like she had......you guessed it.

One move that caught my atention shows exactly how she plays:

about half an hour after rebuy period in a 109+r on stars she has about 8.5k chips, blinds were 75/150. It's folded to her on the CO and she makes it 450, the BB then 3bets her to 1500 and she calls 1050 chips more leaving behind 7k, the other guy had her covered by about 500 chips.

Flop comes 945, the BB bet 1600 leaving behind about 6k, and she shoves the remaining 7k stack making a pot of 11.6k with the bb having to call 5.4k giving him great odds to do it, better than 2:1.

Now let's think about her hand, i mean, she raised on the CO witch does not gives us much info, but then she flat called the BB 3Bet. I mean, this has got to be one of the strongest most deceptive moves she has there, if she 4bet AA or KK he could probably fold knowing that she had a big hand, but she just flatted, since we are a great player and with think about this hands so well, we should have seen that she is not Flatting A9 there, there are no obvious draws (other than 67 or 32, but that's silly right?), she's shoving range has to be AA, KK, QQ the very least AK (but it does not make much sence since she would turn her hand into a bluff with only 6 outs and she's a great player right???) There is also the PP's, 99, 55, 44 but she's getting no odds to call them...or at least she should be able to do the math behind it assuming that even if he had a big hand, she might not stack him everytime she had a set. So the only hand that make sence are QQ+ maybe. Since the guy's hand is "only JJ" he was dumb and should have folded, instead he was stupid and decided to call taking the excelent odds he was getting to do it.

Like i said he turned JJ and as expected she turned..........................................67o

WTF??????????????????????????

Anyway, a 3 came on the turn giving her a suckout.

So all in all......way to go genius......

Her record at opr makes JohnnyBax look weak.  Runs 9-10 stars  based on PS record. Broke the player meter.

Conclusion: you were outplayed in the second hand.  If you knew  her stats, no wonder you were hesitant.

Your article made me think. VN.

the second fold seems ridiculous, esp the way the hand played out... you have committed over 20% of your stack to that hand... by calling on the flop you have no idea where you are... i dont like calling and re-evaluating on the turn, its asking for trouble imo... i would make a leverage bet re raise... that deep in a tourney i think tptk is a good place to take a stand... i dont like committing 20% of your stack and then foding, fearing the immortal nuts. how are the other players going to play against you after seeing that? if you now raise in LP with A9o well the BB is shoving every time imo... then what? u fold i guess, leaking more chips? what r u waiting for?? yes, there are some times when u need to make a big laydown but why leak 20% before doing so if u really think u are behind on that flop?

as for the first hand with JJ six handed i think i am only raising to 11k if i am calling the shove. at that point u are getting about 1.3x1 and are racing most times to warrant the call. i cant see AA playing this way against you ie shoving, KK may shove or re raise to about 27k, QQ prob shove as is JJ and TT (maybe even 77-99 depending on opponent). For these reasons im more likely to call the shove having comitted 11k or 15% of my stack- i think u race mor often than not and its +ve to call. at times i may be inclined to shove myself. however on some occasions i may flat call. re raising and folding seems the worst play to me.

First hand is OK. Second hand, if you're gonna hit top pair top kicker here and not play to the felt, why even play the hand? Awful fold.