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Does that make her your uncle?
Anyhow, something I've been thinking about for a while is same sex couples having children. I have some first hand experience with seeing same sex couples interacting with children, because my ex-wife's dad is gay and lives with his lover. Granted they both treat Eva very well and spoil her a ton, but while Gary is her grandpa...what should she call his lover, Mike? This isn't the same thing as a same sex couple adopting and being parents, and they obviously don't have the same influence over my daughter as a couple who adopted a child would have over said child. That said, it's still an awkward situation and if I'm being honest, I don't like it when she's by herself with those two especially if it's over night.
What do you guys think?
Oh, I'll add this bit as well: Both Gary and Mike have children from marriages they were involved in before they met each other. Mike was a counselor for Alcoholics Anonymous and Gary attended his sessions, that's how they met. Mike has 3 kids, and Gary has 2 of his own. This is yet another reason I am not convinced of the "you're born gay" theory. These two men led lives which involved women and children and marriage to the opposite sex, until they were both over the age of 40. Mike and I actually had a pretty heated discussion recently, and that is what brought me to think about this more as of late.
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OneM24
(United States)
5,130
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Joined
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11-04-2009 1:54 PM
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For every argument suggesting homosexuality is something you are born with, there is an argument suggesting it is not. I choose to believe the latter. Why is that hard to understand?
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DJam21
(United Kingdom)
3,537
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Joined
01-04-2007.
11-04-2009 1:55 PM
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 OneM24: | |
Why is it sad? The purpose of human sexuality is for reproduction. Two males cannot reproduce, and neither can two females. What is there to debate?
So I assume you've only had sex whilst trying to conceive?
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and those children that are mercilessly teased? those that are beaten, assaulted, dragged behind trucks, murdered? they just wanted attention and didn't care that it was bad attention? certainly the circumstances you mentioned could be contributing factors in SOME cases, but to insinuate that every gay person fits into this mold is a bit close-minded and naive
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OneM24
(United States)
5,130
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Joined
12-18-2005.
11-04-2009 1:56 PM
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| pigalet42: | |
people are born with all sorts of abnormalities of one form or another, why would you exclude sexuality as a possibility?
The operative word is abnormal. For the reason I stated above; reproductive systems have one purpose.
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| pigalet42: | |
but to insinuate that every gay person fits into this mold is a bit close-minded and naive
Just a tad.
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OneM24
(United States)
5,130
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Joined
12-18-2005.
11-04-2009 1:57 PM
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| pigalet42: | |
but to insinuate that every gay person fits into this mold is a bit close-minded and naive
Where did I say EVERY gay person fits this mold? I think I quite clearly stated it was only ONE argument. I already admitted to being closed minded on this subject, but naive I am not.
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standard argument and scientific evidence are completely different things... it's like refusing to believe that electricity is not witchcraft... granted no such finding has been made yet, but it surprises me that you're saying "I'll never believe it no matter how damning the evidence will be".
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| OneM24: | |
The operative word is abnormal. For the reason I stated above; reproductive systems have one purpose.
yes - abnormal - i think homosexuality is an abnormality - not an abomination and certainly not a choice - some ppl are born differently - just as some are born left-handed (once thought to be a curse by some ignorant ppl)
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Leet8s
(United States)
5,840
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Joined
08-29-2006.
11-04-2009 2:00 PM
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| OneM24: | |
I would say those people looking for a reason for science to prove being gay isn't a choice, are tailoring results from their "scientific research" to fit what they want to find, and not what is necessarily true. How many times has something been deemed as fact in the name of "science", and has later been disproven? No, this is one of those things where you can submit so called evidence for both arguments and each may have valid points.
Man do Christian Fundamentalists piss me off. Is being gay a choice because you said so or your religion says so? How many times has something been deemed as fact in the name of "religion", and has later been disproven? At least gays don't kill people for disagreeing with them like the church has. No matter how much scientific evidence is submitted you will just be an ignorant fuck. That's what you just claimed. Congratulations. | OneM24: | |
That said, any argument claiming genetic link to being homosexual is not logical and I will not entertain it...regardless of whatever "evidence" is submitted.
I'm so glad your education has given you the ability to determine the illogicality of genetics and homosexuality. Let's just all pray that people who think like you don't control legislative power in our country.
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I'm not really trying to be a jerk but I am asking you to imagine the possibility that your daughter could be homosexual.
If that happens to be the case, how do you think your relationship with your daughter would exist?
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OneM24
(United States)
5,130
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Joined
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11-04-2009 2:06 PM
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| wonglondo: | |
granted no such finding has been made yet
Get back with me when such a finding has been accepted as scientific proof of homosexuality being genetic. We can argue it at that time.
As for now, I'm done arguing this topic. We are going to simply have to agree to disagree on the matter. I respect your right to have your OPINION, but that does not mean I have to agree with it...just as you do not have to agree with me. I'm just glad we can discuss it in a mostly civil manner, instead of name calling and such.
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OneM24
(United States)
5,130
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Joined
12-18-2005.
11-04-2009 2:15 PM
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A couple of things I WILL address here:
| Leet8s: | |
At least gays don't kill people for disagreeing with them like the church has.
Please spare me this nonsense. The "Church" killing people for disagreeing with and denying them had little to do with the teachings of the religion, and more to do with the power hungry officials of said church. I hate people who throw this argument up every opportunity they get, with no concept of what they are actually arguing. Me, I, the individual have never acted in the fashion you denounce the "Church" for.
Blah blah blah, "but the church keeeeeled people!" blah blah blah. Ignorant statement applied to the wrong audience.
| Leet8s: | |
No matter how much scientific evidence is submitted you will just be an ignorant fuck.
Scientific evidence IS disputable, regardless of what you want to believe. Learn to live with that fact. Thanks for the name calling though, that's mighty grown up of you. It does little to validate whatever point you are attempting to make.
| Leet8s: | |
I'm so glad your education has given you the ability to determine the illogicality of genetics and homosexuality
I've education enough to think for myself, and not believe what some random group of liberal scientists would have me to. Get a grip. I've disagreed with you on things in the past, but you're acting like a complete jackass in this thread.
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| pigalet42: | |
who would choose to be ostracized and discriminated against the way gays have been and continue to be
I don't really think they are so much anymore. It's become very fashionable and acceptable in our society to be gay. Look at the TV show "Will and Grace" and many popular celebrities who are gay. They are celebrated and loved by most of America (Ellen comes to mind).
I think there are some people making that choice nowadays, because as I pointed out above, it's become a trend and a fashionable thing to do in some circles. I remember after I got divorced ten years ago, going out to bars and clubs again after not really frequenting them for some time, and I was shocked at the number of 20-something women who would put on a show by kissing and groping each other. Do you think they are really gay or just trying to get attention from men? Yet, they're engaging in homosexual behavior. It just made me think. Hmmmmm.
I do think there is a genetic element to being gay for some people, but certainly not every person who is living a homosexual lifestyle is biologically predispositioned to it. It's obvious that some men are born more effeminate and some women are more masculine and seem to prefer members of the same sex when it comes to sexuality. I think people can also become gay because of environmental factors such as child sexual abuse and rape. Maybe it's a combination of both for some people. Others just do it to get attention (like the women I mentioned above). In other words, I guess I see it as a very complex issue that doesn't have a single contributing factor.
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Leet8s
(United States)
5,840
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Joined
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11-04-2009 2:24 PM
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| OneM24: | |
I've education enough to think for myself
Clearly. | OneM24: | |
and not believe what some random group of liberal scientists would have me to
So you think genetic scientists have a liberal agenda here? Lol, that clearly explains why the scientific evidence is not believable or credible.
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