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So I was looking at my property tax bill and I'm paying 4k a year for the local schools. If I never have kids or send them to a private school I'm out a lot of money. I live in a good area with good schools though so I'd send them to the public schools. But if I never have kids, well I'm paying or their education. What are your thoughts. Should there be public schools funded by taxes or should the responsibility of the education of the children you created fall fully at your feet. I know Washington and Adams were huge proponents of public education paid or by all people via taxes, but they were Federalists. I imagine the responses will all via party line. I'm conflicted. I think free education for all, including college (well not really free but you know what I mean) tremendously benefit our society. But I also wonder how it's my obligation to pay for some persons decision to have eight kids.
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 bdluss: | |
public money
Are you referring to public money from the federal government or state and local governments? If you are referring to federal money, how much control should local school boards and communities give up to the feds because of its funding?
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| bdluss: | |
Well a couple of things I would like to talk about, being a public school teacher.
First, for those that don't think the government should fund schools or run schools, then who should? If you have a privately run school, then that school can exclude who it wants and open the doors only to the desirable students. This is one of the reasons that private schools tend to outperform public schools, because a public school must take everyone. This means you have a higher percentage of students with emotional issues, learning disability issues, and behavioral issues. SO what do you do with these students of which private schools don't want anything to do with?
great point
I want willy to answer this one. just curious what his position would be
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| Cesporz: | |
I would think that it is an investment. The better educated children are the better chances and a better life they will live. Which mean they have a better chance at a higher paying job which comes full cirlce back to the economy, which effects everyone. I mean I just think of it as investment.
this
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mcello
(United States)
154
Posts.
Joined
11-10-2007.
11-13-2009 5:13 PM
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| pigalet42: | |
The difference is that in the private schools, the median is so high that all classes are taught at a higher level. The level of competition is much higher.
As are the internal and external motivators, support systems and resources.
Bdluss nailed my feelings exactly. Spending 9 years teaching in a middle school has made me very jaded on this subject (stay at home dad FTW).
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| dolphin13: | |
First, for those that don't think the government should fund schools or run schools, then who should?
I have no problem with schools being funded by state and local governments and local communities. I do not think that the federal government needs to be involved in education.
| dolphin13: | |
SO what do you do with these students of which private schools don't want anything to do with?
The answer lies in my first answer. The ironic thing is that in our fair city, one of the private schools has turned into the haven for those students who have learning and disciplinary issues and whose families have enough money to send them there.
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bdluss
(United States)
1,083
Posts.
Joined
04-11-2005.
11-13-2009 5:17 PM
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I am referring to primarily state and local money since this is where a vast majority of funding comes from already for public schools. This is why I would like to see the states fund schools as it still allows them to have local control and better oversight.
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| bdluss: | |
I am referring to primarily state and local money since this is where a vast majority of funding comes from already for public schools. This is why I would like to see the states fund schools as it still allows them to have local control and better oversight.
I generally agree with this.
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bdluss
(United States)
1,083
Posts.
Joined
04-11-2005.
11-13-2009 5:25 PM
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| Willywoo: | |
The answer lies in my first answer. The ironic thing is that in our fair city, one of the private schools has turned into the haven for those students who have learning and disciplinary issues and whose families have enough money to send them there.
I don't deny that a private school can do a great job with these students. However, it is still very easy for a private to dismiss these students if they don't turn it around. This option isn't there for a public school. In a pubic school, removing a student is tough, unless the student does several things to approach the level of expulsion (which when it does happen that student is sent to a different public school in a different district).
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| bdluss: | |
I don't deny that a private school can do a great job with these students. However, it is still very easy for a private to dismiss these students if they don't turn it around. This option isn't there for a public school. In a pubic school, removing a student is tough, unless the student does several things to approach the level of expulsion (which when it does happen that student is sent to a different public school in a different district).
I agree
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Leet8s
(United States)
6,642
Posts.
Joined
08-29-2006.
11-13-2009 5:48 PM
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The NYC private schools are ridiculous btw.
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| bdluss: | |
First, for those that don't think the government should fund schools or run schools, then who should? If you have a privately run school, then that school can exclude who it wants and open the doors only to the desirable students. This is one of the reasons that private schools tend to outperform public schools, because a public school must take everyone. This means you have a higher percentage of students with emotional issues, learning disability issues, and behavioral issues. SO what do you do with these students of which private schools don't want anything to do with? As someone mentioned with the NY charter schools, this is part of the reason they are more successful as they do not accept these students. They also tend to get students who have involved parents, which is key to a students success.
In my experience with private schools, which I've been in contact with a few since we had an all private football league in 7-8th grade, the bold part is incorrect. There are just as many people with emotion issues, learning disabilities, and behavioral issues. The difference between private and public is that when the bells to go home ring, private school children have much more help than public school children. In public schools, you are more likely to see people with these problems fail and go wrong, but not more likely to see these problems. The summer before my 5th grade year, me and 3 of my classmates with various disabilities went to a teachers house every week day from 7am-noon to get help for our disabilities. She never charged any of our parents a cent. This kind of thing doesn't happen at public schools, but this is only one of the areas where teachers helped students when I was in school.
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| Leet8s: | |
The NYC private schools are ridiculous btw.
My brother and his wife had to go through an interview process to send my twin nephews to pre-school. They were denied EVERYWHERE until my brother finally swallowed his pride and had his boss make a few phone calls in his behalf. Suddenly these schools found room for my nephews. What a strange and fucked up process.
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I agree with much of what my brother (bdluss) has said. We went to different high schools, me private him public. We both got a good education and were successful at our high school. We are both teachers, him at the MS level, me in HS. A couple things to add... 1. I knew becoming a teacher I would not be rich. I am ok with that. I could have gone into a different field and made more money (mathematics major) but I really enjoy teaching. Teachers should not be paid as much as lawyers. They are in the private sector, supply and demand, all that stuff. That being said, some people threw out the $75,000 salary for teachers. I started at about $29,000. My school district tops out at less than $70,000....after 15 years of experience, a masters degree, and 36 additional graduate credits. And that is above average for Wisconsin. Do I think I am well paid though? Yes. During the year I bust my ass. But I do have my summers free and holiday time off and that time is invaluable to me. 2. I think there is a place for the union, but I agree that bad/lazy teachers are protected way too much. It pisses me and other colleagues off when we hear about shitty teachers in our school. Get them out if they are not good. i.e. There are 2 teachers in my department who are consistently late for school (we have to be at school 15 min before school actually starts). This is unacceptable to me and any protection the union would give them is wrong. 3. Parental involvement from early childhood on is one of the keys to success in school. Please read to your kids when they are young, have them read to you, practice your math facts, help them with their homework and encourage them. OK, off my soapbox about that.
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