$27 45man bubble UTG shoving range

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$27 45man bubble UTG shoving range

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
09-05-2008 12:39 AM

PokerStars Game #20157426256: Tournament #106308851, $25+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2008/09/05 1:09:57 ET

Table '106308851 3' 9-max Seat #4 is the button

Seat 1: BluNTzz549 (10408 in chips)

Seat 2: JuntMonkey (8540 in chips)

Seat 3: easttxboy (2655 in chips)

Seat 4: jonnyjoe17 (1775 in chips)

Seat 5: MartinRogers (3309 in chips)

Seat 6: RAIDERZFAN75 (16977 in chips)

Seat 7: Str8outtaEP (4330 in chips)

Seat 9: ParadiceCity (19506 in chips)

BluNTzz549: posts the ante 50

JuntMonkey: posts the ante 50

easttxboy: posts the ante 50

jonnyjoe17: posts the ante 50

MartinRogers: posts the ante 50

RAIDERZFAN75: posts the ante 50

Str8outtaEP: posts the ante 50

ParadiceCity: posts the ante 50

MartinRogers: posts small blind 400

RAIDERZFAN75: posts big blind 800

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to Str8outtaEP [X X]

Str8outtaEP:

For those who play a lot of these-what's ur shoving range here?

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swd805 (United States) 2,040 Posts. Joined 08-05-2007.
09-05-2008 12:51 AM - In reply to

i would think at least 50% or probly higher

johnnykills 67 Posts. Joined 09-04-2008.
09-05-2008 1:46 AM - In reply to

agree^

Jennifear (United States) 9,061 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005.
09-05-2008 4:57 AM - In reply to

Keep in mind that you are in 5th place with at least $110 equity, and a loss brings you to $0, while a win brings you to about $170. With three shorter stacks alive on the bubble, you need to watch it a bit.

You are looking at something like 15% max, and probably quite a bit less depending on your opponent's calling ranges. If this was a winner-take-all event, I'd be shoving considerably more than that.

50% is spewy. Please don't follow that advice.

mapunk (United States) 796 Posts. Joined 06-01-2006.
09-05-2008 5:44 AM - In reply to

Jennifear:
Keep in mind that you are in 5th place with at least $110 equity, and a loss brings you to $0, while a win brings you to about $170. With three shorter stacks alive on the bubble, you need to watch it a bit.

You are looking at something like 15% max, and probably quite a bit less depending on your opponent's calling ranges. If this was a winner-take-all event, I'd be shoving considerably more than that.

50% is spewy. Please don't follow that advice.

I'm usually pretty spewy here, but I even think 15% is pretty wide in this spot. Like Jenn said, you're 5th in chips. To add to that, 3 guys < 4.5 BB's, and you'd be shoving into the 2nd big stack's BB. I'm thinking something more along the lines of 10%. I didn't do any math or run any numbers, but I don't think this is the time or place to stick it in with KJo here.

dpottz (United States) 10,762 Posts. Joined 04-05-2006.
09-05-2008 5:48 AM - In reply to

swd805:
i would think at least 50% or probly higher

no chance. it's going to be pretty tight

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
09-05-2008 9:25 AM - In reply to

Jennifear:

Keep in mind that you are in 5th place with at least $110 equity, and a loss brings you to $0, while a win brings you to about $170. With three shorter stacks alive on the bubble, you need to watch it a bit.

You are looking at something like 15% max, and probably quite a bit less depending on your opponent's calling ranges. If this was a winner-take-all event, I'd be shoving considerably more than that.

50% is spewy. Please don't follow that advice.

So A8o is a fold?

SloHand (United States) 359 Posts. Joined 10-18-2007.
09-05-2008 10:12 AM - In reply to

Maybe Im just a spewtard but, Im shoving prob at least 40% of my hands here. My first question tho is, how did you get yourself in this spot?

Also I shud add that I love bubbling so maybe that has something to do with it.

Chicos75 (United States) 236 Posts. Joined 04-13-2006.
09-05-2008 12:01 PM - In reply to

In a normal MTT I'm pushing pretty wide. T8o+
Here you have ICM concerns. I'm thinking you have to be very tight. 99+ & AQ+

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
09-05-2008 12:11 PM - In reply to

SloHand:

Maybe Im just a spewtard but, Im shoving prob at least 40% of my hands here. My first question tho is, how did you get yourself in this spot?

Also I shud add that I love bubbling so maybe that has something to do with it.

Umm i think at the ft bubble I had to call a shove in the bb. AT the time i had like 5500ish and the button shove for like 1800ish at 300/6 and lost 40/60. prety sure that's how it went down hard to remmber iwth 6 tbls going, lol

I'd love to get more responses to this I think A8o is pretty close in this spot. Maybe some would say easy fold and maybe it is. I'm not an ICM guy but I understand equity and reevaluating shove in light of the remaining stacks. Being a former mtt'er I was used to running into many more situations mid to lateish where I'd be shoving any two when it was folded to me with 5bb (obv). But I've since learned now that with so many fewer chips in play and with even the biggest stacks less than 20bb shoving ranges need to be adjusted big time, esp at ft, where you actually do have meaningful fold equity with 5-7 bb.

This is especially true in the $27 game. One HUGE diff than the lower levels. In $11 games when a shortish stack shoves, NO ONE can find their fold button. They'll call iwth JTo even if it means they're crippled when they lose.

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
09-05-2008 12:13 PM - In reply to

Chicos75:

In a normal MTT I'm pushing pretty wide. T8o+
Here you have ICM concerns. I'm thinking you have to be very tight. 99+ & AQ+

Thank you Chicos. This is the adjustment that iwas speaking of in my rambling post above. I've just started to understand and apply this adjustment after having watched and played with some of the top players in these games.

Jennifear (United States) 9,061 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005.
09-05-2008 1:54 PM - In reply to

A8o is a clear fold.

Shove AJo+ (It might even be AQ)

userid363 (United States) 2,410 Posts. Joined 10-20-2007.
09-05-2008 4:44 PM - In reply to

Jennifear:
A8o is a clear fold.

Shove AJo+ (It might even be AQ)

Jennifear, besides what % to shove, aren't we also concerned about shoving aces that are likely to be dominated? In this spot, utg with the crossover ace, I think I'm more likely to shove 7 8 suited than a weak ace

TiltinShoes (United States) 3,354 Posts. Joined 09-10-2007.
09-05-2008 4:47 PM - In reply to

Do we really weigh 45 man payouts the same as a 9 man payout? Just a question. I think I am probably shoving A10 + and 88+. A10 and AJ or very reluctant pushes though to be sure. It is important to remember though, shoving UTG of a 9 man table there really could be a lot of hands that can have you in trouble

swd805 (United States) 2,040 Posts. Joined 08-05-2007.
09-05-2008 4:50 PM - In reply to

dpottz:
swd805:

i would think at least 50% or probly higher

no chance. it's going to be pretty tight

agreed, I somehow missed that this was on the bubble.

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$27 45man bubble UTG shoving range TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007. 09-05-2008 12:39 AM

swd805 (United States) 2,040 Posts. Joined 08-05-2007. 09-05-2008 12:51 AM - In reply to

johnnykills 67 Posts. Joined 09-04-2008. 09-05-2008 1:46 AM - In reply to

Jennifear (United States) 9,061 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005. 09-05-2008 4:57 AM - In reply to

mapunk (United States) 796 Posts. Joined 06-01-2006. 09-05-2008 5:44 AM - In reply to

dpottz (United States) 10,762 Posts. Joined 04-05-2006. 09-05-2008 5:48 AM - In reply to

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007. 09-05-2008 9:25 AM - In reply to

SloHand (United States) 359 Posts. Joined 10-18-2007. 09-05-2008 10:12 AM - In reply to

Chicos75 (United States) 236 Posts. Joined 04-13-2006. 09-05-2008 12:01 PM - In reply to

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007. 09-05-2008 12:11 PM - In reply to

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007. 09-05-2008 12:13 PM - In reply to

Jennifear (United States) 9,061 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005. 09-05-2008 1:54 PM - In reply to

userid363 (United States) 2,410 Posts. Joined 10-20-2007. 09-05-2008 4:44 PM - In reply to

TiltinShoes (United States) 3,354 Posts. Joined 09-10-2007. 09-05-2008 4:47 PM - In reply to

swd805 (United States) 2,040 Posts. Joined 08-05-2007. 09-05-2008 4:50 PM - In reply to

$27 45man bubble UTG shoving range

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
09-05-2008 12:39 AM

swd805 (United States) 2,040 Posts. Joined 08-05-2007.
09-05-2008 12:51 AM - In reply to

johnnykills 67 Posts. Joined 09-04-2008.
09-05-2008 1:46 AM - In reply to

Jennifear (United States) 9,061 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005.
09-05-2008 4:57 AM - In reply to

mapunk (United States) 796 Posts. Joined 06-01-2006.
09-05-2008 5:44 AM - In reply to

dpottz (United States) 10,762 Posts. Joined 04-05-2006.
09-05-2008 5:48 AM - In reply to

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
09-05-2008 9:25 AM - In reply to

SloHand (United States) 359 Posts. Joined 10-18-2007.
09-05-2008 10:12 AM - In reply to

Chicos75 (United States) 236 Posts. Joined 04-13-2006.
09-05-2008 12:01 PM - In reply to

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
09-05-2008 12:11 PM - In reply to

TheVillageGrinder (United States) 1,411 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
09-05-2008 12:13 PM - In reply to

Jennifear (United States) 9,061 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005.
09-05-2008 1:54 PM - In reply to

userid363 (United States) 2,410 Posts. Joined 10-20-2007.
09-05-2008 4:44 PM - In reply to

TiltinShoes (United States) 3,354 Posts. Joined 09-10-2007.
09-05-2008 4:47 PM - In reply to

swd805 (United States) 2,040 Posts. Joined 08-05-2007.
09-05-2008 4:50 PM - In reply to