Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
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What line do most of you take when the blinds are at 50/100 and the stacks are as follows:
Me: 2500
Villain: 500
If I am on the button with 89 suited is it a shove here? Aren't they going to call about 80% of the time with any two cards? Which means that you would be behing most of the time, because we only have 9 high. Usually if you try and limp they shove and that is not what you typically want. You want to be the one shoving not the one calling. I think you should fold it and wait for a better hand with racing value, like a k8, A7, or QJ. What do you think?
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Please dont play 55$ hu's if you dont know to shove 89s on the button with villain at 5bb....you must be burning $$ if you cant make this shove.
You can shove almost any two here even 35s is unexploitably +EV.
Unexploitable shoving range with him at 5bb no ante is 22+ A2+ K2+ Q2+ J2s+ J3o+ T2s+ T6o+ 94s+ 97o+ 84s+ 86o+ 74s+ 76o+ 64s 53s 43s.....
If you wanna wait for K8 or A7 to shove here you will be down 100 buyins before you know it.
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what he said. and it would be -ev for the shortie to be calling w/ 80%.
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If OP will only shove K8, A7, etc etc then it would be EXTREMELY extremely sickly stupidly -EV for shorty to call 80%.
Unexploitable calling range for shorty in this spot is 61%.
If you shove 100% he can call 89%. But clearly you aren't if you are even considering laying 87s here.
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 TheMayor: | |
Please dont play 55$ hu's if you dont know to shove 89s on the button with villain at 5bb....you must be burning $$ if you cant make this shove.
You can shove almost any two here even 35s is unexploitably +EV.
Unexploitable shoving range with him at 5bb no ante is 22+ A2+ K2+ Q2+ J2s+ J3o+ T2s+ T6o+ 94s+ 97o+ 84s+ 86o+ 74s+ 76o+ 64s 53s 43s.....
If you wanna wait for K8 or A7 to shove here you will be down 100 buyins before you know it.
What software are you using to get your "shoving range"?
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i love how ever since the djk thread unexploitable is the new hit vocab word
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| PU |
CA |
OC |
Range |
| SB |
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| 71.3%, 22+ Qx+ J2s+ J3o+ T2s+ T6o+ 94s+ 97o+ 84s+ 86o+ 74s+ 76o 64s+ 53s+ 43s <<What you should be shoving with |
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| BB |
| 60.8%, 22+ Qx+ J2s+ J5o+ T5s+ T7o+ 96s+ 98o 86s+ 76s <<What he should be calling your shove with. |
Most people call less often than they should here, so you can shove a bit more than the 71.3% stated. 89s is humongous here.
Bottom line: If you want to have any hope at all of beating $55 HU games, you need to know the Nash Equilibrium cold.
Nash Equilibrium Chart <<where you can do that
Hope this helps!
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could you please elaborate on what the numbers mean? How did you derive the 71.3% from this example using the Nash Equilibrium Chart? Maybe someone could explain the chart a little bit, please.
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agreed, plz help wth what the numbers in the chart mean. are they number of bb's the shorter stack of the two players has, and you shove the hand that correlates as long as the number in the chart is greater than the number of bb's the shorter of the two stacks has?
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To shove a hand according to Nash, take the number of BBs in the effective stack (5 in this case) and shove anything with a value of 5 or higher. Hope that helps!
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| Jennifear: | |
To shove a hand according to Nash, take the number of BBs in the effective stack (5 in this case) and shove anything with a value of 5 or higher. Hope that helps!
jenn wouldn that be every hand in the deck?
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It would not, if his calling range is correct. The correct range is in the post above (71.3%). Truth is though, many players will call too seldom, so shoving more often is viable.
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Jennifear, or anyone else who understands the nash equilibrium chart, I really respect your game, I just want to be clear though. So if he has about 7 big blinds, then I should shove in with 10 3??? Because in the nash chart the pushing number for 10 3 is 7.7 That just sounds goofy to me, is that really the correct play, and if so could you please elaborate breifly why it is so? Thanks
If I am reading the chart wrong also would like to know that.lol
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Neek
(United States)
1,932
Posts.
Joined
10-18-2006.
08-01-2008 1:04 PM
-
In reply to
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| rmsapp08: | |
Jennifear, or anyone else who understands the nash equilibrium chart, I really respect your game, I just want to be clear though. So if he has about 7 big blinds, then I should shove in with 10 3??? Because in the nash chart the pushing number for 10 3 is 7.7 That just sounds goofy to me, is that really the correct play, and if so could you please elaborate breifly why it is so? Thanks
If I am reading the chart wrong also would like to know that.lol
Essentially it is so because John Nash (yes that John Nash from the movie A Beautiful Mind) was really smart and says so.
The Nash Equilibrium is A state where both players are playing mathematically perfectly and correctly. Basically as it works out for HU NLHE, you start with the first player to act. When the effective stack is xBB, then there is a correct range of hands (top y% lets say) that the SB should be shoving profitably because the BB should only be calling with the top z% of hands. However the BB knows that the SB knows this and therefore the calling range for him can change, which then changes the shoving range for the SB, and back and forth and so on until you reach an equilibrium. That's what the Nash Equilibrium represents.
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| rmsapp08: | |
Jennifear, or anyone else who understands the nash equilibrium chart, I really respect your game, I just want to be clear though. So if he has about 7 big blinds, then I should shove in with 10 3??? Because in the nash chart the pushing number for 10 3 is 7.7 That just sounds goofy to me, is that really the correct play, and if so could you please elaborate breifly why it is so? Thanks
If I am reading the chart wrong also would like to know that.lol
T3s is 7.7 so it's good, but T3o is 3.8 so it is not. The proper range is in the above post with 71.3%. It explains that T2s+ is good and T6o+ is good.
| PU |
CA |
OC |
Range |
| SB |
|
| 71.3%, 22+ Qx+ J2s+ J3o+ T2s+ T6o+ 94s+ 97o+ 84s+ 86o+ 74s+ 76o 64s+ 53s+ 43s <<What you should be shoving with |
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| BB |
| 60.8%, 22+ Qx+ J2s+ J5o+ T5s+ T7o+ 96s+ 98o 86s+ 76s <<What he should be calling your shove with. |
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