Poker Discussion Post

 F UB

F AP

F anyone retarded enough to deposit/play at any of those sites...

Cocktails?!

The Dude

Wow, this sounds pretty awesome for those of us who do this for $.
I can't imagine all the new players and new tourneys to play!

Questions for Annie Duke or POker HO deebo, etc...

Is it just going to be one site?...or will there be AP and UB and Cerus?
Can we transfer funds from Current UB and AP to the new site?
and big software upgrades right? i hope!?

Ty

goofy2485:

I think the improtant thing to remember here is Annie Duke has no affiliation at all with AP and she never will. WP lies.

i still dont understand fully.  obviously cereus will include the player database from both sites, but will ap and ub still remain seperate sites as well?  when you play on this new site, will you click a button to activate 'ap' and another button to play on 'ub'  or will it just be all mashed together,  and eventually the companies will drop the ub and ap from the name and itll just be Cereus. 

my guess is  AP will be a  "skin" to UB
and ub will be a "skin" to AP

players from both site can play both tourney schedules

 Annie, its not so much you lying as it is the company which you represent. As the face of a shady company, you inevitably are going to hear a lot of bashing of you. Its personal only because people's finances and in some cases livelihoods were affected. NIMBY is the phrase that comes to mind. Everyone wants great new things but it can't be in their backyard. You have chosen to align yourself with a company that has not treated its customer base well, therefore you have to expect and understand the resentment. People could always stand to be more tactful, but not everyone cares to be.

I realize you are in an awkward position but its a choice you have made and will have to deal with. I don't agree with all of the bashing against you personally but I can see where they are coming from. Represent whoever you choose, but don't expect a love affair from the majority of pocketfivers who are in the know, and have personally experienced hardship due to shady practices. It unrealistic. Good luck in your fight.

Under

Seriously?

If you play on 'Cereus' and get taken you f'n deserve it.

plzlemmewin:

I hope knowledgeable poker players hate the site. I really hope that all p5ers and all the high stakes cash game players turn down the opportunity to play at this new site. I will GLADLY take all the blind and oblivious fishies and keep them all to myself :) You guys are the suckers who will be playing on sites like Full Tilt, which are filled with decent players that are getting better because of certain learning sites affiliated with Full Tilt.

I am SO glad that everyone hates UltimateBet. The site is so soft right now and if you guys weren't so stubborn, you might make a decent profit on UB. The goal of poker is to make as much money as possible. Stop letting your insecurities about UltimateBet stop you from doing that. Just my opinion though... GL at the tables :)

Cmac:

but you have to believe that if they go through with this, that they have learned from their mistakes.

How so?

Obvious gimmick to cover up bad publicity, well played but I know the Truth!!  Number 85 said so!

Shelter

 I lol'ed^^^^

loooooool

Oh...don't get me wrong.  I completely understand that I have made a difficult choice and that I will get some bashing for it.  However, I will defend myself against people calling me a liar when I certainly have not lied.  I have made a choice to stick by UB because I truly believe that it is the act of integrity for me.  I have publicly stated, including in front of congress, that one of the huge advantages of online poker is the transparency of the data that it affords.  Cheating will occur in poker.  It is an enormous financial market and, much like the stock market, it will attract disgusting behavior and shady individuals who want to take advantage of the money to be gained from dishonest behavior.  Unlike the stock market though, the transparency of the data in online poker allows us to go back when a problem is discovered and make the affected people whole.  I don't think anyone who invested in a stock that Ivan Boesky or Michael Milken cheated was ever made whole.  The SEC levied big fines but the actual individuals who were affected were not made right.

Now, I have said publicly that this is why online poker should be supported.  That we must support managements that leverage the transparency and don't just tell the customer base to screw off.  So as this scandal was developing I get some insight into when the cheating happened, what the relationship of the cheater was to the company, how the investigation was going and I find out that the cheater has no relationship to this current management and that this management was, indeed, leveraging the transparency of the data and using the knowledge to shore up security, secure the software and develop going forward much better security systems.  I also know that this management was not making excuses or turning a blind eye to their own responsibility in this in terms of not having the large transfers and multiple accounts and account name changes trigger normal fraud investigation, which those kinds of behaviors should have.  I also know that the cheater receives no financial benefit from whatever help I give UB to grow from here.

So now I say to myself, I can walk away and state indignantly that I will not be associated with cheaters.  But honestly, that would be really hypocritical of me since I know the management in place, Paul Leggett in particular, are not cheaters and are trying to do the right thing by the players and move the brand forward in a positive way.  So yes, that would be the easy way out reputation wise for me.  But it would be dishonest of me to do so and against what I have publicly stood for in regards to how companies should behave in the face of issues. 

So I chose to be part of the solution.  I chose to support Paul Leggett, a man who has done nothing but try to do right by the people who were affected by this and I am not the only one with this opinion of him...see Nat Arum for details on that. 

So I know I will be bashed for continuing to support the brand.  I am well aware of that.  But this is the right choice for my conscience.

That being said, I am totally supportive of anyone who does not, for ethical or moral reasons, choose to play on UB.  I get that and understand why someone would have that opinion.  I have a violent reaction to cheating myself.  I just have an awful lot of insight into who actually did the cheating and it was not the people who run UB today.  But again, I get why someone would choose to stay away from the brand and I am completely respectful of anyone who chooses that as their course of action.  I, at the same time, don't expect everyone to respect my decision to stick by UB.  But that is who I am and what I believe in and I have to go with my gut and what I think is the most honest and consistent choice for me.

Annie 

I understand it is in UB's best interest to prevent the cheating, and they are trying to fix this, this CEREUS seems to me to be the first step in the right direction. I guess the only two questions I have about this move are:

1) What happens if someone has an account on AP and UB?

and

2) Does this software make cheating impossible in the same way that Full Tilt's does?

Cmac:

I understand it is in UB's best interest to prevent the cheating, and they are trying to fix this, this CEREUS seems to me to be the first step in the right direction. I guess the only two questions I have about this move are:

1) What happens if someone has an account on AP and UB?

and

2) Does this software make cheating impossible in the same way that Full Tilt's does?