Poker Discussion
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Full Tilt · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Doyles Room
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Out in 8th, no big deal. I expected to go deeper as I had plenty of chips at the FT, but that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes.
Here was the scenario in question, from the Final Table of the Stars $150
Some call this move intelligent, personally I think it was a brainfart....
Short stack is all in utg for 5300. Blinds were 2k 4k, it was 1300 for me to call from the BB with an ace in my hand. Now if gobboboy has a legitimate hand in the SB, then sure, a reraise to isolate the all in player makes sense. But to basically give protection to an all in player at the final table made no sense whatsoever imho. He had T high and helped the guy with 5300 chips stay alive. Of course that player doubles and triples up and then finds AA when myself and another player had already moved all in with AK, so now he is the huge chip leader instead of being out in 9th.
gobboboy has been doing great of late, and i wish him continued success, but I think this was a very low positive ev imho.
Dealt to brsavage [4h Ad]
Sinchron: raises 1308 to 5308 and is all-in
3Nemesis: folds
TexDuke: folds
phx99: folds
fumanchu: folds
iamzflo: folds
TopToad: folds
gobboboy: raises 42554 to 47862 and is all-in
brsavage: folds
*** FLOP *** [As 3h 7s]
*** TURN *** [As 3h 7s] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [As 3h 7s Jd] [8c]
brsavage said, "thats a genius move with a player facing elimination"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gobboboy: shows [Th 8s] (a pair of Eights)
Sinchron: shows [Td Tc] (a pair of Tens)
Sinchron collected 16416 from pot
brsavage said, "pure genius"
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Hard to understand the logic
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I'm going to go out and guess maybe he didnt see the utg player limp and thought he was open shoving your bb?
Seems pretty stupid for him to shove there otherwise.
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He's getting a great overlay of dead chips in the pot while not being nearly that far behind the short stack's range. I think it was a +EV move in the long run. He's trying to get chips to get top 3, not get rid of someone to move up a few hundred dollars.
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So how is this guy related to you N 82? I can see your point there for the long run and all, but still in my mind that is not a very smart play.
I'm not tryin to give u a hard time but you have made about a dozen posts about him latley.
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gobbo is a stud and couldnt give a shit about placing in 7th ...come on chris you know this.
He is a baller and he is playing for 1st.
if the play is +ev then im all for it
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Is a smaller raise here not more appropriate then? Has the same effect but also gives him an escape route incase the BB wakes up with a monster. Not sure what the total of the pot was at that time but I'm sure it was not worth risking his whole stack or however much br had.
Maybe just me
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By
timzc1
on
04-22-2006 2:16 AM
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...yea I am not following this move, given his hand.
810 does not fare well against the typical all in hand of a micro stack
which is what? a top 50% hand, give or take. ax, any pp, kx any two broadway, etc.
if he had say 99, or aq, then I could understand the (crazy) aggressive logic of iscolating (sp?) the short stack's all in...
but 810? confuses me a bit.
--tc
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By
annodv
on
04-22-2006 2:23 AM
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i understand you gobbo :)
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Typical old school VS new school argument here. Old school says late in a tourney its more valuable to knockout a player than to have a +EV chance at a few extra chips. New school says if you are +EV make the play end of story. Which is correct??? I wish I knew!! LOL
Again though like in the AQ hand that Todd posted the otrher day, when VERY VERY good players have a VERY VERY different opinions on a hand it usually means either way is OK for us mortals.
A.J.
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Well, I think we could analyze this better if the whole HH was posted, w/ everyone's chip counts. That would just give us an understanding of where gobbo's stack was in relation to everyone else, and also how much brsavage had, so we know what gobboboy is really risking.
Now, that being said, I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Gobboy's play here. I will make this play 90% of the time, maybe not all-in, but w/ an isolation raise from SB w/ ANY 2 CARDS!! He has 2k commited, and most people are gonna fold in BB when you isolate, and he is getting almost 5-1 on his money...3,308 more to win 16,416. The shortstack is UTG, and "most players" at that level know they have to move in utg when they only have 1.1 BB left instead of being all-in in the BB. His range is huge, and in most cases gobbo will be live , and 40% to win. Unfortunately gobbo ran into the 1 hand he did not want to see, TT. In the long run, this play is definitely +EV.
I say F eliminating a player and moving up 1 spot @ a final table, I play to win, and to win you need to gain ALL the chips in play. Chris, I really think you should sit back and look at this play, maybe think about adding it to your arsenal...
BeL0W
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This is one of the more controversial plays. I've gotten so much shit for this particular play its not even funny... I'll do it with 23 sooted sometimes and it really pisses people off (especially the big blind). Nothing wrong with it really, I wouldnt do it at a final table though.
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My guess is this hand wouldn't even have been posted if the ace didn't flop...
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PocketFives.com, 2008
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