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Re(1): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By 55Allin55 on 01-12-2006 8:24 PM A continuation he prob has two overs like you or maybe Ax, you got second nut draw with two overs, I see a 1/2 pot sized bet would be enough.....

Re(2): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By gidders on 01-12-2006 8:25 PM I have 2nd nut flush.

Re(3): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By gamaitec on 01-12-2006 8:28 PM Gidders respond to my post

Re(1): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By phatcat on 01-12-2006 8:28 PM i maybe weak, but id still make 2/3 pot bet or so fearing the Ah draw to the nut and also masking your hand a little.

Re(1): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By PuertoKid on 01-12-2006 8:41 PM pf looks fine to me--it's what I'd likely do. I'd probably bet about 1/3 to 1/2 the pot for 2 reasons: 1) I want to build the pot; 2)  hope that zoo would see it as weakness and come over the top to bluff the flush or go all in on a flush draw. if he has the A high flush he's going ot stack me, but I'm not worried about that. Another option is to overbet the pot a little. This may look like a bet that is afraid of the flush and get someone to come over the top. I think, though, that the smaller bet is usually more effective in getting someone to come over the top.

Re(2): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By Sooted57 on 01-12-2006 8:54 PM Lead out for 1/3 of the pot... your only going to get action against A or any misc. fish that are calling to see what u do on the turn.  You want to get some money in the pot, and there's really no reason to slowplay unless you are on a very agressive table.

Re(3): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By gidders on 01-12-2006 9:00 PM It's Level 1 so i really don't have any reads other than what I normally know about players at the 180 mans. Well, I checked behind him. *** FLOP *** [7h 4h 6h] FG13: folds zoozoopetals: checks gidders: checks *** TURN *** [7h 4h 6h] [7c] zoozoopetals: bets 60 gidders: ?????? Now what?  The pot is 390 on the flop and gets checked through.  His bet makes the pot 450... What do I do?

Re(1): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By dhubermex on 01-12-2006 9:13 PM Gids, Pre-flop move here is kinda whatever a player feels like.  If you're comfy with this move pre-flop in this situation, then I'd say that's the correct move. This is all so generic since you're the only one who can actually have a feel as to what's going on at your table, so it's extremely difficult to try to judge something by just looking at the Hand History. Generically speaking, and while trying to use some my past experiences to understand this situation, I first notice that your opponent called a limp, so I would normally take him off of any pocket pair TT & above at that point.  Of course, there's always a chance that our intuition is completely off and we wind up as goats, but I don't think I could put him on a pocket pair of TT or above in this particular situation. This guy has you slightly covered in chips, which could always mean he's willing to call the pre-flop raise with a pocket-pair in hopes of flopping a set.  With these 3 low cards on the board, it would be possible he's slow-playing a set... so I'd like to outline the probabilities of what I think I'm against here. Most Probable:  I would say he's holding a pocket pair of 88 or less, but I truly believe that if he were holding an overpair to this board, that he would've bet out as the agressor on the flop, but he didn't.  So this narrows it down to either a set or an underpair.  So I would say it's most likely he's holding a pocket pair of 77, 66, 55, 44, 33, or 22... all of which you have dominated. Also possible #1:  Ace-rag seems like a great possiblity here too, and we'd just LOVE him to have a hand of A5 (as long as neither of those are hearts), since he'd be drawing completely dead at this point, and we could just slow-play it and see if he can catch up a little and bet into us. Also possible #2:  I guess we'll have to at least consider he's holding Ah, simply because we want to be prepared if another heart hits the board.  I think the most important thing is to already have some options in mind just in case a 4th heart comes on the turn (or river).  The other thing I would want to be prepared for is if the board happens to pair.  Check, raise, fold, sit out... whatever, that part of it doesn't really matter.  What matters here is that the player (you, in this situation) makes the appropriate move and decision based on what he/she feels is correct.  Being prepared (and being able to live with your decisions afterwards) would be key in this hand, in my opinion. Also possible #3:  Suited Ace of Hearts (LOLOL, this would suck).  No way of telling this one at this point.  But that's just one of those things is he happens to have it.  We'll just have to get burned by this one probably. My decision:  There's no way I'm checking this, because I just GOT to know some of the possibilities I'm up against.  The last thing I want to be doing is feeling my way in the dark if a scare card comes on the turn.  I want some information NOW, not on the turn or river where things could get out of hand.  So I bet 250-300 (pot is about 400, right?). I guess a lot of people would advise you to just sit on this one and wait for the turn, but I can't see a lot of hands that would call our bets on the turn or river, if they won't call this bet on the flop.  My point here is that I just don't think there are many hands that this guy could possibly have where we'd lose value or expectation by betting out in this spot.  It seems highly likely that he would re-raise our bet all-in if he happens to have an overpair, a set, or a pair with an overcard Heart.  A bet of 250-300 here seems very appropriate, in my opinion. I'm interested in seeing how this one plays out.  Of course, there's always the great chance that I'm hopelessly off-track here, especially considering that I'm not at the table and feeling the action as it's happening, and also because I run out of fingers & toes to count my mistakes daily.  I look forward to the next part... dhubermex

Re(4): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By PuertoKid on 01-12-2006 9:17 PM Put in the biggest raise you think he will call. The goal is to build the pot as much as possible on each street so that he will call a bigger bet on the next street due to pot size. That's why I think it was a mistake to check the flop. I'd probably raise to 180 here.

Re(4): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By phatcat on 01-12-2006 9:23 PM raise to 350-400, dont want him to catch a cheap boat or the nut flush, you want to get some $$ in the pot becasue you have to th ink you have the best hand and u need to get some better idea of what he holds.

Re(1): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By dhubermex on 01-12-2006 9:26 PM Well, I just saw your decision to check behind him... so now we have the turn. This is precisely why I would have bet out on the flop, simply because I REALLY want to be able reduce the amount of possible hands my opponent could have. But, thankfully, our opponent has given us a wonderful opportunity to ask him a question here, so this would seem like an elementary raise now.  If I'm correct, the total pot is around 450 chips now, so I'd just go ahead and raise his 60 to about 200-300 here and let him tell me what he thinks about it. Plus, being prepared now becomes even more important because if our opponent calls this raise (or re-raises all-in), we're gonna have to do some soul-searching.  So once again, we try the educated Guessing Game.... Most Probable:  This sure seems smells like a rookie Feeler Bet from a weak-tight player who has an OVERCARD Heart in his hand.  We're still guaranteed victory as long as that heart isn't the Ace of Hearts. Also Possible #1:  A Feeler Bet with his pocket pair of 55, 33, or 22, in which case our opponent is now drawing to 4 outs on the river. Also Possible #2:  Full House or quads with our opponent holding 77, 66, or 44... we could have gotten a little better idea if we had bet the flop, in my opinion. Also Possible #3:  An off-suit Ace with the 5 of Hearts, but this makes no sense at all after his turn bet, so I would now eliminate the 5 of Hearts from all possible hands he could have. Also Possible #4:  Rags, and ugly rags too.  Although unlikely, we can't really discount this possibility after his bet on the turn. My Decision:  I raise him from 60 to 200-300 chips here, but I'm already preparing my mind for what I feel comfortable doing if he calls or pushes.  This means I have a general idea of what I'll probably do in those events, and will also try to judge his timing (speed of his call or re-raise) to see if I can just get another half-ounce of info from this hand. dhubermex

Re(2): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By FriedFish on 01-12-2006 10:03 PM I like your flop play, on turn I'd just call , you are most likely still way ahead, if he'd flopped trips/better he'd have bet it on flop, or bigger turn bet. If you reraise on turn, the threat of a big river bet will get him to fold his likely draw. Then hopefully he hits his card on river and will bet and then you can then reraise. Play it caustiously if board pairs or heart comes on river.

Re(3): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By gidders on 01-12-2006 11:37 PM *** TURN *** [7h 4h 6h] [7c] zoozoopetals: bets 60 gidders: raises 140 to 200 zoozoopetals: calls 140 *** RIVER *** [7h 4h 6h 7c] [Kd] zoozoopetals: bets 180 gidders: ????????

Re(4): Hand Discussion Part 1 In reply to By imhooks on 01-12-2006 11:59 PM well, as has been pointed out earlier.  The 180's are full of complete idiots.  So its really difficult to make a sound decision here.  The way he played it, makes it look like he's drawing to something.   His relatively small bet into you looks very familiar with these players trying to buy their missed draw or flush risking the minimal amount of chips.  Tough one gidders.  I'd say raise it up.

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