Poker Discussion Post

chicagocards1:

this sucks just win something big today please

BigDShaggyJ:

we never exchanged PS $$ for cash, it was simply to pay for his rent at 2 houses we rented via las vegas retreats as well as sidebets that we had during the summer, IE last longers etc. the $150 i sent to his acct was the result of a last longer.
what confuses me is the timing. prior to my win in the $55 25k on sunday I had roughly 1kish on my stars account. my account was frozen about an hour after the win when I had nearly 15k in my account. did they choose this time to take action because I had the funds in my account to cover the losses? what would they have done had I not had the funds in my account to take back? would they have just put my stars acct balance at -$3650? ftr I've tried contacting unrivledmst numerous times since recieving the email and no luck. i doubt I will see a penny of this money. I just essentially freerolled his entire summer unknowingly. LIFE TILT!!!

BigDShaggyJ:

we never exchanged PS $$ for cash, it was simply to pay for his rent at 2 houses we rented via las vegas retreats as well as sidebets that we had during the summer, IE last longers etc. the $150 i sent to his acct was the result of a last longer.
what confuses me is the timing. prior to my win in the $55 25k on sunday I had roughly 1kish on my stars account. my account was frozen about an hour after the win when I had nearly 15k in my account. did they choose this time to take action because I had the funds in my account to cover the losses? what would they have done had I not had the funds in my account to take back? would they have just put my stars acct balance at -$3650? ftr I've tried contacting unrivledmst numerous times since recieving the email and no luck. i doubt I will see a penny of this money. I just essentially freerolled his entire summer unknowingly. LIFE TILT!!!

This is the Curse of P 2 P transfer ability.

Too many including the Author of the post misused it.

However Pokerstars is SUBJECT to the ML laws and the minute you go over 3 K a report is filed with the IRS.

I hate to burst your bubble but the site is NOT a free money transfer service. You must use a debit card cash or checks or legitamate money transfer forms to move over 3K  USD.

 
What you did  could be considered Money laundering for wanted felon and yes they will wait for  warrant to seize your funds or an official inquiry.

If he stole money and told the arresting officer it was transferred to you to pay bills Pokerstars will and must freeze your account till you can prove the money was legitamate.

By telling them that he  and you used it to pay your bills that is a direct violation of the transfer software that is meant as a chop tool only.

Danny is my mate.

So to me, it sounds like they have the right to confiscate your funds because you broke their TOS by admitting the transfer of funds was done in full knowledge of both parties for reasons other than sole use of the service (i.e. playing poker on stars). Super shitty!

What if you had told them he was your backer and that the 3+k was meant for you to play with on the site and not in relation to anything else, would that have somehow not violated their TOS? What if you said you did not know the user at all, nor why he was transferring you funds? It's not like you can accept or decline a money transfer; a random person could theoretically send you any amount of money simply of goodwill!  (hopes steve haris sends me 40k! lol)

Jennifear's analogy is spot on and looking at their TOS, 'seizures' are only mentioned twice and in relation to the 'User' that has violated their TOS. Furthermore, I can't find any language that specifically references transfers of funds and what is/isn't acceptable use, only that it must be used for the sole purpose of the 'service.' Quite ambiguous!

It would seem to me the language of the TOS is such that if you are a legitimate user who has not violated the TOS in any way, shape, or form, then fund seizure simply cannot take place.

If someone fraudulently deposits $20 bucks and transfers it to a completely random person of no known relation whatsoever (who we should assume is completely adhering to all TOS). Once the transfer is approved and executed where in the language of the TOS does it affirm that said $20 can recovered from the legitimate player? In my mind, it's analogous to funds that cannot be recovered in the event of a hacked account where monies were lost through legitimate table play.

roughly 32 hours since I sent in the requested documentation to stars and my shit is still frozen.

and quick open question to all if I did infact unknowingly break the TOS of pokerstars.

if you had a seemingly flaky dude coming to live with you who shows up 3 days later than he said he was going to, would u not accept the $$ on pokerstars to guarantee payment and to ensure that you wouldn't get stuck eating his portion of the bill?

well I did.

BigDShaggyJ:

roughly 32 hours since I sent in the requested documentation to stars and my shit is still frozen.

and quick open question to all if I did infact unknowingly break the TOS of pokerstars.

if you had a seemingly flaky dude coming to live with you who shows up 3 days later than he said he was going to, would u not accept the $$ on pokerstars to guarantee payment and to ensure that you wouldn't get stuck eating his portion of the bill?

well I did.

This will make me think twice about doing swaps on sites with people I casually know even if they send me money first..  Seems a bit unfair based on the facts, but am glad you posted your saga as it might benefit others in the future..

So you had 1k online... then stars starts investigating this... maybe stars noticed you in the $55 25k, gave you superuser abilities so you could take it down.. then once you had enough money to cover it.. freeze said account...

</tinfoil hat>

Kajun $endz

I think pokerstars needs to make sure funds are cleared before they are allowed to be transferred. They don't allow you to withdraw funds until they have cleared so why should you be able to transfer these funds to another player. Full Tilt does not allow transfers right away and then you have sucessful deposits to gain the privilage.

The pokersites also use processors and do not normally accept funds themselves (unless you mail checks to them). Shouldn't the processors be responsible for executing fraudulant transactions. The fees on the transactions can be 5% or more for each transaction. I have always assumed these fees were so high to recover the money for bad transactions.

Now that they have taken this money for you are they going to stop chasing unrivledmstr? It is up to you to chase him down? What if you did not know him?

How long before a transfer is cleared? I have taken transfers from people for 3 years. Do I now have to worry about having any of them getting taken from my account because one of the players now owes money. The most I have sent or recieved is $200 so it's not a major issue for me, but what about the top players? Say a top pro  backs they newest internet phenom in the sunday million and gets a 50K transfer after the player wins. This player then turns his winnings into a pile of coke and hookers, loses the rest, and turns into a real scumbag. 6 months later this player makes bad deposits totalling 15K. Can and should pokerstars be able to take this 15K from the top pro? I don't think so but because he lived the same house (not currently but at some point in time) in this case this is ok?

It is unfair to the players to make them responsible for the deposits of other players.

My Account is not officially reopened and I got an explanation from stars that includes a brief synopsis of unrivledmstr's activities:

Hello Danny,

Thank you for your email.

We have now deducted the funds and transferred it back to unrivledmstr.
In
regard to your query about fraudulent activity I can confirm he was
creating a host of accounts basically multi accounting however making
fraudulent eCheck deposits and dumping to one account. The funds
transferred to your account were proceeds of these transactions.
Transfers
to your account and others was just an attempt to wash the money from
his
fraudulent activity unfortunately for you we are owed this money now as
all deposits were returned as uncleared hence the reason why we have
retrieved money.

Please note for future reference that the transfer tool is a not
facility
available for players to use to settle debts outside PokerStars.

I have now reinstated your account with full playing privileges you
would
have to settle this matter personally with this player.


Kind Regards,

Henry.

PokerStars Security.


----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxxx@hpu.edu
Sent: 2008/07/23 21:55:25
To: security@pokerstars.com
Subject: Re: RE: URGENT: Re: PokerStars Account.

>
>After rereading the Pokerstars T&C I have come to realize that I don't
>have a leg to stand on and there is no way for me to recover the funds
>that I was cheated out of by unrivledmstr. I am unfortunately an
>outraged, innocent 3rd party that was a casualty of negligent
>fraudulent activity of a random roommate by association. this is very
>upsetting and deeply distressing to know that pokerstars continually
>let him transfer money to me without warning me that his account was
>under investigation. I was unaware that it was possible to have money
>retroactively retrieved from my account that I had won in a tournament.
>what would have happened if I didn't have the money in my account to cover these >transactions? do I even get an explanation of what type of fraudulent
>activity unrivledmstr was taking part in? also I faxed a copy of my
>drivers license and utility bill about 6 hours ago and have yet to get
>a response or have my pokerstars account reopened, how long can I
>expect to wait until I get a response or have my account reopened?
>
>-Danny
>

you say you dont know  the other two screennames they mentioned then say it might be one of your roomates going through your router. this makes your story seem little fishy because they were your poker playing buddies for a month and a half and you dont know their sns? and if so you didnt ask them their sns after ps sent you the email?  i think you would know one way or the other if it was them or not and not act clueless about it. your covering something up man and all i gotta say is **** all the goddam cheaters out there!

the_snail03:

I really don't understand why stars don't pursue unrivledmstr for the funds. I think it's unfair on you as you are just an innocent bystander in this all.......however, looking at it from stars point of view.......there is this chump who is depositing via fraudulent e-checks and then transferring monies to your account..............in any case, enjoy your $10k and gl