Poker Discussion
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To all players who have encountered the situation, or some variation of it. Not to offend any of the talented youngins on the site, but I would like the responses to be post college experience, since college times tend to sidetrack on many tangents and influences.
Here we go, I am a 28 year old from NY. Career is on the right path, working at a large Investment Bank as a Credit Def Swap / Loan Exposure Analyst. Current salary around 200k. All things pointing in right direction. Have a GF for about a year now, and she moved in with me due to her living arrangements and work situation in past September. She is a great girl, who I hope to marry one day. Apartment is not too big, so not very easy to have your own space. Looking at a bigger place next year. I pay all bills and expenses for both of us (she is out of work currently)
Poker: I am a winning player, not too much time for cash games, played mostly the late nite party tourneys. Too put in perspective, I have won the party midnite 100.. 3 times in last year 10k -13k wins, with at least another 10 -12 final tables with results all through 2 – 10. Very good results in Big Sunday tourneys when I play, just not a big win yet. I won a couple of Step 5s for 9k when they first started on party. Those are the bigger wins, plenty of FTs mixed in for less. I havent played much in last coupel months do too the new living arrangements
Dilemma: My GF is 100% against Poker, says its gambling and does not listen to normal reason, even as I won a Party 100 last month for 10k right in front of her. Any logic which shows my winning against the avg player does nothing for my argument, its stuck in her head that she doesn’t like it. She is very stubborn about anything that she thinks is wrong… She does say however, that going down to Atlantic City on the odd occasion is OK. Just that playing online is ridiculous and gambling gambling gambling. She refuses to listen to any argument. Poker is fun for me, I love the competition, I love the math, and my record shows I can beat 95% of tourney players pretty consistently. I would rather play a late nite tourney than sit at a local bar with couple friends. Nothing has changed her opinion about this. I have offered a compromise of playing once a week, just a 100 or 50 tourney. She says playing once a week is like going to AC once a week, which would be crazy and unacceptable. I have hardened my stance recently since I believe she is going too far. This is my fun, and I am a winning player. She has said if I play once a week in one tourney it will threaten our relationship. I do not like being held hostage like this, I believe it’s a bit unreasonable to make the threat. But I can’t question another person’s opinion on it, it’s their opinion I guess, and they have every right to believe as strongly as they want.
Need:
I need to know what’s happening out there regarding this.. How have you guys handled the situation? And am I or she being unreasonable here. I am obviously not going to lose her because of poker, but I don’t agree with being told I can’t play because of someone’s flawed opinion. This is my fun, I am a 28 year old adult who pays all the bills and takes care of everything. All serious thoughts are greatly appreciated.
ginzorella
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Ginz I am 25 years old..I also have a good job not 200k a year but a nice living. I live in Lincoln Park, nice area in Chicago. I also live with a girl I have been dating for 2 years now. Recentley moved in together. I also pay the bills. She works, but I like to take care of things. She also believes that playing online is "gambling, addictive, becoing abad habit". We have gotten into heated fights about this. I also have had a lot of success on the tourney front. Have won several mtt right in front of her eyes, bought us a new tv...vavation..etc....
Here is how I see it...You are a man. This is your passion right? I am not saying you live for playing poker..but this is something that you love to do. It gets your juices flowing. It is a hobby that you really enjoy. I assume I am correct in what i am saying? Not only that, but you make very decent side money to go along with it...NOBODY should be able to tell you what you can and cannot do. I am not a shovinist at all, but I strongly believe you have to be able to pursue something you love in moderation...and if you let her take something that you love to do away it is onlt the beginning of a nightmare. If this means getting into a fight over it..then so be it. This is not only about poker, it can be anything. Don't let somebody take away something you love to do...Why is she against you playing poker?? Think about it. Is it because you are o the computer and not with her?? Some women are selfish...not bad people, just selfish and make up other excuses why thewy dont want yuou playiong or going bird wathcing or anything just so you focus more on them. Doeasnt make them bad, just the way it is. Please do not let her dictate your life and your passion. Do yourself a favor, DO NOT RUIN YOUR RELATIONSHIP, but do not give up something you love...if you do man trust me..you will resent her.
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make her watch rounders that should help LOLOLOL
seriously tough, its pretty simple, would you rather poker in your life or her in your life? What is more important to you? Not to influence you but there are plenty of girls out there who have no problem with poker. These days being a great poker player is almost like athlete status.
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Anyone you get responding here will have a bias, because we love poker, play it regularly, and don't equate it with casino gambling. Obviously, the prevailing wisdom around these parts is going to be that she's the unreasonable one. But I'll take a shot with my opinion.
When you say, "I am obviously not going to lose her because of poker", what does that mean? Does it mean that you would stop playing if she keeps putting her foot down? Or that you know she won't leave over this issue alone? Those are two very different things, and the answer is key to figuring out how big of an issue this is going to be between the two of you.
Do you two have other hobbies that you both enjoy participating in? Especially other card or board games, like bridge or backgammon or gin or something...if you can show her how poker has far more in common with those games than a game like craps or roulette, that'll help. Are there other hobbies or interests that you focus on a lot less because you play poker (like you don't have time to research your fantasy football team or work on the Great American Novel or run a Internet radio station or something)?
If poker is your primary interest and hobby, I wouldn't recommend giving it up, even for the woman you love. IMO, love shouldn't be about forcing someone to give up a piece of themselves. It's a sticky situation, to be sure...I don't know what I'd do if my wife said that I shouldn't play anymore. Fortunately, in a healthy relationship, I don't think one partner would ask them to give up something that is important in their lives.
I don't know you, or your GF, so this should all be taken with a grain of salt.
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There's not much advice that we can give you; only you know your girlfriend and how committed to the relationship you both are, and just from point-of-view, I'm sure that your recollection of events is a little biased (as any of ours would be). That being said, heres my opinion: whether or not you are a winning player, poker can be a hobby, like countless other games and pasttimes. For losing players, its kind of like bowling - you spend money and never get any back, but you have fun. There is nothing wrong with enjoying playing poker. If you're a winning player, like you apparently are, then its even better than a hobby as it rewards you for doing it. It becomes dangerous if you're a perpetually losing player,and you keep on throwing money at it (esp. if you cant afford it) but that's a different story. In your case, your financial situation seems quite good already. You have a high-paying job and you're making more from poker than most people make from 9-5 jobs in a year, and you say you have the stats to back up the fact that you are a consistent winner. Your GF is currently not working, so I think its a little ludicrous to question the hobby/part-time-job that is bringing in tens of thousands of dollars for HER to live off of. You say you've tried to explain, mathematically, that while it may be gambling, in the long-run you're going to be a winning player, but that she doesn't buy it. You've also apparently tried to compromise, to no avail. My personal opinion: clearly you want to maintain the relationship, and if she's more important to you than poker, than there's a good chance you're going to have to give up on cards, though I don't think you should. Your main argument points are: 1) Im a consistent winning player, so much so that it could be considered a part-time job and lucrative source of income. 2) I enjoy it, and I do it in moderation. 3) I've tried to compromise with you, and am willing to cut down my play to make you feel better. That being said, it's something I enjoy and I think its ridiculous that you would unilaterally demand that I give it up without any room for compromise. Another angle you could play: if you're so adamant about me giving up the game that brought in XX thousand dollars last year, you better go get a job and match that income. It's senseless to throw away tens of thousands of dollars because of stubborness. One last note: if this is how she is about poker, you may have bigger problems down the road. When one person in a couple decides they don't like something about the other, then demands that they immediately and totally change OR ELSE, with no room for compromise, it's a dangerous indicator. This is really no different than a girlfriend getting angry about a boyfriend smoking the occasional cigarette or going out drinking with friends - you shouldn't have to NEVER go drinking with friends or NEVER smoke a cigarette to appease some one, there has to be middle ground. If she's not at all willing to compromise on one of your habits, and will only except total change in her favor, that's a dangerous precedent and I GUARANTEE you will have more arguments like this in the future. I know this was long, but these situations really aggravate me. You're in between a rock and a hard place. Best of luck.
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I have been married 20 years last November, To me this is something that needs to be worked out ahead of time. To me it sounds like you have a hobby that actually makes a profit. This is rare.If you do actually marry her then your money will be her money. She will then have a right to have some say in how it is spent, used, invested. IMO you should work this out ahead of time. I assume she is more against gambling than playing poker, although it could be the time that is spent. Possibly she has seen someone fall into a gambing addiction or is in fear of living a life where gambling may take over and ruin you financially.
Eventually this will come to be a large problem if she cannot stand by your wants and needs. I would do my best to explain that you feel this is a game of skill that you are quite skillful participating. I would do my best to tell her that this is one of the things that you truely enjoy. You need to make it clear that you will only invest a certain portion per month playing and that you will not spend more than a certain amount per week or month playing. If she cannot agree with these guidelines then it is up to you if your life will be better with her or your hobby.
This may be a little harsh but you need to be happy throughout life. While poker is fun you will ultimately have to decide if you will be happier with a wife or poker or playing poker and haveing a disgruntled wife.The main thing is to have some kind of agreement both can live with. If not, both will be unhappy.
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Honestly, she isn't working, she isn't paying for anything, she has no
right to tell you what to do anyways. Maybe she is paranoid that you
are going to lose money, since she isn't currently working, that might
freak her out a little more, since there is no backup cash.
But she shouldn't be forcing you to do anything, that kinda of shit
shouldn't fly in a relationship and she needs to learn to compromise if
she is going to be like that.
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By
Nato76
on
01-03-2006 12:47 PM
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My wife is the type that wants me to spend as much time with her as possible and when I started playing poker it was a real problem. We had arguments about it and when I started winning I would take her out to eat and give her some mini shopping sprees while giving her all my time on the weekends. This worked for me even though now I have my wife as an addition "rake". Tough to be a winning player but that is what I had to do. Talk to you girl and see if you can compromise with her in some way.
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"IMO, love shouldn't be about forcing someone to give up a piece of themselves."
I think grapsfan hit the nail on the head. You more than extended the olive branch by offering a compromise on your playing. If you cannot expect her to apply logic to the situation at hand (poker), how long is it before she takes this logic (essentially saying "F YOU" to your choice) and stripping you of other things you may want to do? Poker aside, I think this is a red flag. The basis of any heathy relationship is compromise, not one person's mandates on another.
I'm reading a book now that's called What Happy People Know. One of the facets is that your overall happiness is directly correlated with your freedom (defined by the number of choices you have). I don't have specific advice for you other than to keep your eyes open; I'm sure your GF is wonderful, but she has some serious issues if she can't listen to a logical argument. Seems quite irrational to me.
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now she's telling you that you can't play poker, next thing will be you can't hang out with your buddies and have some beers. If you can't work this out with her now, you will have problems later on in your relationship, and god knows what she will do when you do get married together. so before this gets any deeper, figure out what YOU really want to do. Remember, people do what they like to do cause they enjoy it, it makes them feel good, it might make them take the stress away, yadi yadi yadi. the list goes on. you know what the pros and cons are.
I don't think she has any right to tell you what to do when you are the boss, the one with ballz in the house. Especially when you are supporting yourself as well as her. f this. life is too short and one should do whatever it is that you enjoy. Obviously you are doing very very well in poker and you enjoy it a lot. Don't take your train off of tracks.
on a side note, i am married, i have a kid, soon to have two more, have a full time job. i also hear it from my wife once in a while. But we have come to an agreement that poker will be played only on say certain days, or certain times.
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Ginzorella,
I can sympathize. I'm 36 and make close to what you do doing a job I really enjoy. My wife loved Rounders, enjoys watching poker on TV, and is pretty tolerant of my playing. But lately she's been complaining that I do it too much and we've had some minor arguments about it. I have taken the family on several vacations over the last couple of years purely on poker winnings. Also, since my son was born 18 months ago, my wife has been a stay-at-home mom.
The caveman part of me believes that as long as the mortgage is being paid and there's food on the table, she should be happy that I have a hobby that keeps me home and gets us to Maui occasionally.
I'd tell you what the sensitive-man-of-the-21st-century part of me believes, but the caveman part beat it to death with a club.
You say you won't lose her because of poker. I think she should be asking whether she would lose YOU because of her hatred of poker. You still have a choice in the matter and I suggest you fully resolve this before moving to the next step. I love my wife and if I'm ever forced to choose, well, it's goodbye poker without hesitation. But part of the reason I love her is that she'd never force me to choose...
Underdog34
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You should ask her if she would get like this if you were playing
backgammon or, to a lesser extent, chess. The connotation of
poker is that you're going to be playing and getting cheated and the
mob is involved, but that's obviously not true. It's going to
take time for everyone to realize that over a long period of time,
there will be significant winners and losers. Some people are
very stubborn (especially women.... :) jk), and she won't
understand after one discussion. There's a good CD by Mike Caro
(which is also pretty damn funny), that explains it like this: In
a game when decisions matter, you can win, in the long run.
Show her examples of good plays and bad plays and how they earn you
different amounts of money. She doesnt sound like a very
mathematical person, but, if she is, explain her simple concepts like
odds. It took me a couple weeks to explain to my family that the
odds of hitting a one outer on the river isnt 50-50. They thought
that you either hit it or you dont, therefore 50-50. I'm
embarrassed to even admit that one. Just give it time.
Do you spend every waking moment with her? Well, I'm sure you
dont. How do you not have time to yourself for some poker?
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Does she know how to play? My girlfriend hates everything about poker, but that is because she has no clue what is going on, therefor no respect for the game that we all love. I told her that I was going to put 50 dollars on an account for her if she would promise to sit on a weekend and learn for a few hours. She thought that was a great idea (no kidding, she loves spending my money?!!?!). Maybe then she will at least know what I am doing and not just dismiss it as a lottery online....
*EDIT* How do those girls see a 10k cash and think its a waste of time? Thats all my friends/family/girlfriend would need to be convinced and let me play all day.
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I think the distinction that makes this more extreme than most of the situations like it is the fact that he's a) playing in moderation and b)winning. Most of these arguments are either "you play way too much" or "you're losing too much money", which can both be valid points. However, he plays rarely and usually wins. The overriding problems here are twofold: 1) how she responds to something he does that she doesn't like, which is a bigger problem than poker could ever be and 2) that she has a stigma that "online poker=addiction=bad". you said she doesn't mind going to AC once in a while, so it's not the concept of gambling that she's opposed to - it's just doing it with some regularity that makes her associate it with "problem gambling". You already do it in far more moderation than most people. You don't lose money at it. That SHOULD eliminate any concerns that you're going to become a penniless gambling junky. You already don't play much, and you offered to cut back even farther, so its not an issue of how much time you spend playing. I think what you need to do is have a calm, rational discussion with her WHERE SHE FULLY EXPLAINS WHAT HER PROBLEM WITH ONLINE POKER IS. She clearly has no problem with occasional gambling, and most people wouldn't get THIS freaked out even about something as money-draining and stupid as lottery ticket gambling, so make her explain her problems with it. She might be forced to the conclusion that she has no LOGICAL reason to dislike it. You have talking points already to eliminate some of the most common responses (you spend too much time playing, you lose too much money etc.)
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Giving her 50 bucks to play with is a great idea. Thats what my boyfriend did with me, and all I do now is play poker. At first I was like OMG my boyfriend is a moron and will end up losing tons of money playing online (thiking it was impossible to make a profit) but soon after I realized it is possible to win on a consitent basis and its not just gambling.
If you teach her to make a profit too, she will learn to love the game.
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PocketFives.com, 2008
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