Poker Discussion
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basically ryan was telling me with 4 people left in a 9 man sng and you get AKs and a guy shoves in(who has been shoving in every hand) you have to fold it.. I told him to GTFO.. he also said every top 100 pro is mucking this all day on the bubble.. here is my aim convo..
ryanb9snowborder (1:31:53 AM): .... wasnt lien =P
DonkeyFish21 (1:31:19 AM): lol.. i wouldn't go by that if it's telling u to lay down aks 4 handed to 1 all in shove
ryanb9snowborder (1:33:26 AM): its proven theory
ryanb9snowborder (1:33:43 AM): who u think the best online player is?
DonkeyFish21 (1:32:10 AM): mtts.. lilholdem
ryanb9snowborder (1:34:12 AM): ask him if you should fold AKs on a sng bubble when the open shover has u coverd
ryanb9snowborder (1:34:17 AM): he will say yes
DonkeyFish21 (1:32:24 AM): i'm sure as shit he doesn't go by that
ryanb9snowborder (1:34:28 AM): im 100000% positive he does
DonkeyFish21 (1:32:39 AM): LMFAO..
ryanb9snowborder (1:34:37 AM): .......
ryanb9snowborder (1:34:40 AM): ask him
DonkeyFish21 (1:32:55 AM): gtfo
ryanb9snowborder (1:34:56 AM): ask him dude
ryanb9snowborder (1:35:01 AM): he plays high stakes sngs
ryanb9snowborder (1:35:04 AM): of course he fucken knows that
ryanb9snowborder (1:35:11 AM): u cant call off your stack on the bubble
ryanb9snowborder (1:35:14 AM): w/ fucken AK
ryanb9snowborder (1:35:24 AM): its -$EV
DonkeyFish21 (1:33:50 AM): he would say u would have to be the tightest mother fucker in the world to fold that.. it's just fucking retarded.. it means ur a tight ass who is playing to just get in the money..
ryanb9snowborder (1:35:56 AM): do me a fav
ryanb9snowborder (1:36:01 AM): ask him, then get back to me
DonkeyFish21 (1:34:39 AM): LMFAO.. i would ask every top ranked player on P 5s and they would say shut the fuck up.. are u crazy?
ryanb9snowborder (1:36:41 AM): do it
DonkeyFish21 (1:34:57 AM): lol
ryanb9snowborder (1:36:51 AM): of the top 100 ranked players on 55
ryanb9snowborder (1:36:53 AM): 100 would say fold
DonkeyFish21 (1:35:12 AM): gtfo man
ryanb9snowborder (1:37:10 AM): aight
ryanb9snowborder (1:37:14 AM): im not goign to convince u
ryanb9snowborder (1:37:21 AM): but when u find out im right
ryanb9snowborder (1:37:24 AM): leme know
DonkeyFish21 (1:35:51 AM): lol.. how bout i just post this convo on p5s.. lol
ryanb9snowborder (1:37:53 AM): ?
ryanb9snowborder (1:37:54 AM): plz do
ryanb9snowborder (1:37:58 AM): post this
ryanb9snowborder (1:38:05 AM): $200 SnG
ryanb9snowborder (1:38:15 AM): dude has 6k, everyone else has 4k
ryanb9snowborder (1:38:30 AM): 200/400 blinds
ryanb9snowborder (1:38:32 AM): 6k shoves
ryanb9snowborder (1:38:35 AM): u have AK
ryanb9snowborder (1:38:38 AM): you HAVE to fold
DonkeyFish21 (1:36:46 AM): open shove?? are u kidding u can't fold AK
ryanb9snowborder (1:38:57 AM): post it
ryanb9snowborder (1:39:00 AM): then get back to me
DonkeyFish21 (1:37:09 AM): lol
ryanb9snowborder (1:39:08 AM): im seroius
ryanb9snowborder (1:39:15 AM): they will lol @ u for not knowing that 
DonkeyFish21 (1:37:35 AM): ok dude
ryanb9snowborder (1:39:56 AM): 6k open shover can have atc, litterally
ryanb9snowborder (1:40:01 AM): and you can not call w/ AK
ryanb9snowborder (1:40:59 AM): calling w/ AKs
ryanb9snowborder (1:41:10 AM): in a $200 sng, on the buble, like i jsut explained it (chip stack wise)
ryanb9snowborder (1:41:18 AM): is -$30
ryanb9snowborder (1:41:25 AM): on average
DonkeyFish21 (1:40:18 AM): lol ur when someone is shoving every hand.. and u have AK on the bubble u are telling me to fold?
ryanb9snowborder (1:42:16 AM): well, make it 6k, 3k, 3k, and 2k
ryanb9snowborder (1:42:21 AM): like it was in the sng i played
ryanb9snowborder (1:42:44 AM): lol
ryanb9snowborder (1:42:47 AM): post it =P
DonkeyFish21 (1:41:25 AM): so u say fold AK on the bubble? to someone who has shoved every hand?
ryanb9snowborder (1:43:29 AM): no
ryanb9snowborder (1:43:31 AM): i say
ryanb9snowborder (1:43:37 AM): if you are in 2nd - 3rd place
ryanb9snowborder (1:43:42 AM): out of 4 people left
ryanb9snowborder (1:43:47 AM): and chip leader shoves
ryanb9snowborder (1:43:55 AM): like he has every hand last 100 hands
ryanb9snowborder (1:43:58 AM): and u have AK
ryanb9snowborder (1:44:01 AM): u have to fold
ryanb9snowborder (1:44:10 AM): is what im saying
DonkeyFish21 (1:42:24 AM): lol.. so what kind of hand do u put him on theN?
DonkeyFish21 (1:42:31 AM): AA every time?
ryanb9snowborder (1:44:57 AM): he can have 78
ryanb9snowborder (1:45:03 AM): 'n show u
ryanb9snowborder (1:45:06 AM): u still cant call
DonkeyFish21 (1:43:30 AM): if u wanna win the tourney you have to call.. all fucking day
ryanb9snowborder (1:45:46 AM): get back to me when u find im right
ryanb9snowborder (1:45:48 AM): =P
DonkeyFish21 (1:44:04 AM): ok.. i'll ppost after this heads up match
ryanb9snowborder (1:46:02 AM): aight
ryanb9snowborder (1:46:04 AM): im outty though
Folding AK 4 handed to an open shove is new to me.. can anyone back me up on this? or do i gotta muck AK to win..
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This would be pretty easy to calculate using ICM. I however, am not the person to do that math.
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Well depending on chip stacks, I can see where he is coming from.
if you are playing to win, a shove is a good Idea. if your playing to cash, fold.
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Your friend plays to cash, lil holdem doesn't. LiL calls all day everyday.
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hotsas
(United States)
192
Posts.
Joined
03-07-2007.
10-18-2007 4:22 AM
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9 handed sng.. he's chip leader 4 pple left chip everyones close except chip leader has 4500.. he's been shoving every hand and you get AK.. so he open shoves..FOLD.. FUCK NO
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hotsas
(United States)
192
Posts.
Joined
03-07-2007.
10-18-2007 4:26 AM
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ok so out of all the ranked pro's who's folding it??
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Adam
(Costa Rica)
11,647
Posts.
Joined
12-21-2004.
10-18-2007 4:29 AM
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Obviously depends on the stacks, but what "DonkeyFish21" is missing (and hopefully can learn from this post) is that the decision in this case has absolutely nothing to do with what you put your opponent on. In many situations, it can be shown that if your opponent has ATC (any two cards) which is the assumption here, folding AK suited four-handed to the chip leader in a SNG that pays 3 is the mathematically correct play.
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there needs to be a Hand history...90/100 its prolly gonna be a fold tho
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hotsas
(United States)
192
Posts.
Joined
03-07-2007.
10-18-2007 4:33 AM
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ok so i ask again out of all the ranked pros, who is folding AK to a guy who has shoved every hand on the bubble..? Folding AK here is soooooo weak to me.. quite frankley i don't care if it's "mathmatically" correct to fold.. If you call and he sucks out that's just UL.. I quote Tony Dungy.. "You play to win the game."
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I play poker to make money, not to "win the game". Depending on the chip stacks, it is usually +EV to make the fold here.
**edit** that was Herm Edwards, not Tony Dungy.
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hotsas
(United States)
192
Posts.
Joined
03-07-2007.
10-18-2007 4:42 AM
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Ok i really wanna see what lilholdem says about this, or some of the other top ranked pro's.. inissint is a great sng player.. is he folding this?? i wanna know..
Edit: oh ya it was herm edwards.. my bad.. they both kinda look the same anyways
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I tried to do an ICM model on why folding is mathematically correct, but I was missing something.
Personally, I would PM jennifear and ask her to break this down for you. Your friend is correct though, from a math POV, folding is probably the best option. Depending on the stack sizes, there will be instances where folding anything but AA is the mathematically correct play.
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Not a top pro, but i call alll day every day and twice on sunday!
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umm Dyzalot is a top player
folding AK there is correct sometimes although cant say I would
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i said im not a top pro son
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