Poker Discussion
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PocketFives just received a phone call from Absolute Poker confirming the suspicions of the online poker community over the past month. While we need to be vague in this post to respect their wishes, we can say that their systems were compromised, and that they are prepared to provide the details in a statement coming shortly.
Part of the statement will include a plan to refund players affected by this compromise.
We are extremely relieved to hear this outcome, as our most important goal in all this is to see justice given to those who were cheated in this process. Pocketfives is extremely proud to have played a part in the process of uncovering the impropriety that has occurred. We would of course like to thank all the other parties who played a key role in this process—specifically the folks that have been posting here and at twoplustwo.com.
This is great news for everyone. Keep your eyes out for the statement.
Extremely Relieved,
--Adam
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Seems like the cover-up is always worse than the original crime.
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Now this is pure speculation but what happened with AP I thought I would throw this out there.
I am no pro. I think I am a decent poker player for the bankroll I have and the volume I play. I have won and lost fair amounts. I don't have the the bankroll management to ever be a pro pokerplayer. I guess I have too much gamble in me. I love to play and still play on pstars although with all of this AP stuff coming out I am not as eager to deposit anywhere online as I have been for the last four to five years. Now with all of that being said....
Have you ever played a sit n go or a tourney and it just seemed like one guy had your number and you wait for that big hand to crack em with and you get it and you lose and your knocked out while your shaking your head like WTF just happened. No specific examples except for time guy called me with AK hearts on three low spade board for all his tourney chips with twelve people left playing for ten grand on PP a few years ago.....(last time I bring that up lol) I am not even really talking about that hand here.
This is really hard to explain here and I am sure I will get some disagreement but here it goes.
It does not happen that often but things like I can't beat one particular guy in a pot. I tighten up and wait for aces, kings or queens and finally get them. I isolate the guy who has frustrated me with my lets say queens. I go all in. I have say 800 or 900 in a sitn go. He calls with some hand like 67 or 78 suited and gets two pair and beats you. Sometimes it just seems he knew what was coming. It does not happen all that often but when your instincts tell you something is not right it just makes the beat that much tougher. I am not saying pstars is rigged or anything like that but it makes me think. Again its not like this happens all the time but when it has it stands out that it was one guy and I guess if I was a super sleuth I would have went back and saw if he was the one who took down the sitngo. Obviously too busy in my next game lol. I have played thousands of sitngo's and I have thought something was weird no more than ten to twenty times. I am talking lower limits here also. I usually play twenty to thirty dollar buy ins.
Especially when you read things here on P'5s like if they were smart they would not make it so obvious. Calling an all in when the guy has me covered is not that fishy I guess but the reason I am talking about it because more often than not it was a terrible call.
The guy who cheated at AP never bought into that maxim that they quote in rounders, "you can shear a sheep many times but skin him only once."
How about this? The hole card software for sale online. Now all of us including me are too smart to buy this junk it can't work right. I can't even remember the price they quoted but let me ask you this. Have you looked into it? I personally have not. But I am beginning to think it just may be worth the fifty or a hundred bucks just to see if it does work. Not to use it and be a peice of shit cheating scumbag but to say one of two things....
It doesn't work. Hole card software is a hoax and a way for someone to make money off of people that will send whatever price he is asking for.
Or..... It does work. This software allows people to make an educated guess(at the very least) to see my hole cards. WTF do I play online for. I must be crazy.
I hope I was clear about what I am talking about. I am not paranoid or whining for my money back(not even sure if I was cheated) and I won a few hundred last week on pstars and I got my check today. I won it playing cash games. Pot limit hi lo. If two guys want to sit and collude via cell phone or IM fuckem I will take the challenge they probably suck at cards anyway and if I am in I think its cuz my hand will stand up. Thats cash games and that kind of cheating although it sux it is much different than knowing a persons whole cards.
I am making this post because of all of you who don't want online poker to go by the wayside which it will if people like myself whose skill level is a little bit above average but bankroll mngmt is poor at times stop depositing. I love to play poker. I love to play online. I hate losing money and I hate cheaters. Multi accounting is the least of my concerns. Although multiaccounting is obviously cheating they still have to beat you fair and square in a particular pot. If they know your hole cards that is simple for them.
The biggest buy in I have ever played in was at Foxwoods World Poker Finals. It was a NL tourney 565 in. My pocket aces got cracked by Jack ten offsuit. I raised preflop he flopped a jack, i went all in and he rivered a ten. It was live. I don't think the dealer had a ten waiting for the river. Although it was a bad beat it was a live bad beat. The guy played the hand the hand badly and got paid off. I have no issues with the RNG on any online site. I don't think that pstars favors some accounts over others when it comes to the river. I have issues with the possibility of someone able to see my hole cards.
Which will bring me to this conclusion. I get out of work early tomorrow. I have money to deposit on Stars if I want. I am not sure I want to. Now before any of you reply saying its not possible for hole cards to be seen. Check the Absolute Poker posts. The situations I am talking about happened on different sites. Mainly PartyPoker a few years ago and now Pokerstars. Again I can't reiterate enough that this has happened a small percentage of the time. But it has happened and a red flag was raised to myself by myself. I could be wrong I could be right. It does not mean I have to continue to deposit online anymore. So all of you who think the AP situation was bad for online poker your right because you just may have lost some players that you honest guys(and cheaters for that matter) make a living on.
I really hope Massachusetts puts a casino here so I can play live more. Such a fucking joke to me that they put out a twenty dollar scratch ticket and a new computerized horse racing game in 2500 locations across the state on top of KENO in every barroom around here. They say they are so worried about people's gambling problems but they expand the lottery every chance they get.
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I will give you cliff notes. For the reasons stated above I am not as eager to deposit onto an online poker site as I have been for the last four years because if the hole card scandal can happen on AP why can't it happen anywhere? Online poker is fun. Losing money to cheaters is not.
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Pupkin
(United States)
1,820
Posts.
Joined
12-01-2005.
10-19-2007 12:12 AM
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In reply to
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Very good that the cheated players will probably get their money back -- great news. Doesn't at all change my feelings about AP, though. Can't ever trust that site.
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Part of the statement will include a plan to refund players affected by this compromise.
I love this statement. It should probably read "WE WILL REFUND WHAT YOU CAUGHT US DOING. WE WONT TELL YOU HOW BAD IT REALLY IS, SO PLEASE KEEP DEPOSITING."
Anyone who plays AP deserves what they get.
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I'm thinking about changing my screenname in honor of Nat...
M 82 51 19
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WoW, things are actually being HANDLED. SO SICK. GG you sicksick geniuses for not only noticing this but cracking the case.
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Cliffnotes:
1) Does "Magic Holecard Software" exist?
2) Has anyone actually bought one of these or has everyone disregarded it as a scam
brevity ftw
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rdog
(United States)
175
Posts.
Joined
06-01-2006.
10-19-2007 12:24 AM
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In reply to
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Just an FYI for many of you that probably missed the thread since it got combined with another old thread. In this link:
http://www.pocketfives.com/6AC42910-202F-4305-A36B-44B462942095.aspx
Starting with the Dyzalot post.....AP SUPPORT sent out an email 5 or 6 months ago confirming that one of the cash game accounts suspecting of having access to hole cards (Steamroller) was in fact an AP account.
So lets recap:
1. AP LET a known AP account play on their tables.
2. AP had to know when the original allegations came out that Steamroller was an AP account.
3. AP in 2 separate statements denied any wrongdoing (even after 1 and 2).
4. AP was willing to steal money from its customers when it has known from the VERY beginning that all of the allegations had merit.
5. The email confirming Steamroller gets posted and within the hour AP admits guilt.
The FCP thread where the email was posted is here (within the last few pages). First, the language is posted and then the actual email with headers:
http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=110060&st=440
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gank
(United States)
2,680
Posts.
Joined
02-18-2005.
10-19-2007 12:28 AM
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In reply to
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LOL @ Mark 'Imalyingdeutchebag' Seif acting like he COULD sue Dan Druff.
Just cause he is a lawyer, he thinks he can/could manipulate the truth. My favorite part of the first statement he made about AP was the fact that he would say stuff like 'People commented that the acct in question didnt make any wrong river calls, and we found that to be not true' but he leaves out the fact that it was one bad call out of 10,000.
And I am pretty sure a company that is technically operating illegally in our Country would have problems using our court system to sue any of us, oh and the fact that Dan Druff didn't lie, he just pieced together all the bullshit that AP/Seif created and tried to cover up.
Bottom line, FUCK YOU MARK SEIF. Next time I see you(and residually the next few times after that) I am going to give you a fucking earful. Everytime I see you at a poker tourney, Im gonna call you out for being the biggest piece of shit ever. You guys tried to cover up, manipulate, and lie to us, and your arrogance throughout this whole thing saying stuff like 'I am sure that stuff will surface over the next few days exonnerating AP of all wrongdoing, or that is impossible for the site to be compromised with exposed holecards, etc' is nothing short of bullshit.
FUCK YOU FOR PUTTING THE WHOLE COMMUNITY THROUGH THIS, AND JEAPORDIZING ONLINE POKER'S FUTURE.
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so how is P5's gonna handle AP after all this is over? after all ya'll went to their offices in good faith and they lied straight to your faces...
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I still think that was done on purpose by someone who was a whistle blower , by sending the email.
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