Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
So this took place on 6-10-2007:
I was railing a buddy of mine and chatting with him on AIM one sunday evening as he was getting deep in the full tilt poker 215 buy in 400k guaranteed tournament. He was playing extrordinary and was poised to make a deep run. At this point in time, i believe there were approximately 3-4 tables left so somewhere in the 27-36 players range. If i recall correctly, my buddy had a top 5 stack, and possibly even top 3. This was some time ago, so forgive me but a few of the details may be a bit foggy. Let it be known that my buddy was not staked in this tournament by the player in question so the overwhelming comment of people taking over their stakee's accounts is a null and void point. Out of nowhere around this point of the tournament, SpanishKey, also known here on P5's as Aaron Been came on the rail asking my buddy if he had AIM. My buddy didn't respond. SpanishKey was persistant, and after a few attempts at asking him if he had AIM, my buddy finally responded something along the lines of "no, but PM me on P5s if you want to talk." I was pretty interested to see what was so urgent, and i was happy that my buddy was filling me in. Aaron Been on the PM in a nutshell asked my buddy for an undisclosed amount of money (meaning i didnt ask how much he offered) to purchase his account for the rest of the tournament. My buddy on AIM was like, WTF, and basically took this as a slap in the face. My friend was a ranked player at that time, and was fully confident in his skills to take the tournament down on his own, and felt like he would be giving up alot of equity to sell off his account. He denied Mr. Been the invitation and went on to final table this tournment for a very nice 5 figure score.
I guess my point of this is a couple of things. It is very naive to think that this is only going on amongst a few players. This issue may be WAAAAAAAAY more widespread than we think. This is just one example of an attempted cheat attempt gone wrong. Now, I am not positive that it was Aaron Been (SpanishKey) that was gonna take the account over, or one of his close associates, but i am 100% positive that he had entered this tournament himself as there is a record of it in the Pokerdb in which Aaron finished in 2735/2765. I am also 100% positive that it was the SpanishKey account soliciting my friend, and I am sure if Pocket Fives holds PM records that this message was sent and recieved by my friend.
I will/would be very curious to see if Aaron Been comes here to respond to this, and maybe clear the air as to what exactly was going on that day. There is no excuse on this one that he was trying to help him through some "sticky situations." This was an outright attempt to purchase someone's account. I guess I am not savvy on all the rules and technicallities of the online poker sites, but this has to be not tollerated, and i commend my buddy and give him mad props to deny this attempt and play the tournament on his own, and give him alot of credit for placing highly in a sunday major final table out of almost 3000 players.
MJ P.I.
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I am backed and I have never and would never allow somebody to take over for me late in a tourney.
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Ship - when you're backed by someone, who is banned for cheating online, you're not to keen on telling who your backer is.
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I wasn't talking about JJ's crowd but maybe it wasn't the crowd I'm thinking of either.
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Wow, this ghosting/buying out thing is getting worst and worst.
Most of the threads on the front page these last couple of days are allthe same. Most pertains to something about "JJ", "Ghosting", or some new accusation of someone cheating/ghosting/buying out a seat/acct in a tourney or whatever you want to call it.
What happened to the good old days?? =)
y083
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No kidding. With all the scrutiny on online poker, All the cheating/moral issues sure do not help the matter of making online poker legit.
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You are right, it would be so much better if this were all still hidden from the public and JJ and mantis were just raping our equity freely
</sarcasm>
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This really sucks. Unfortunately it seems like the kind of thing that will be very difficult to police. I hope that it just becomes so frowned upon in the poker community that people just start feeling GUILTY about doing it and STOP doing it.
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yah, don't get me wrong, You have to bring the issue out and hopefully self govern this issue a little, but sure is disgusting how this is happening and it's kinda like the steroid issue in sports...It's going on way more than we could even imagine.
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"Whenever I'm playing against one of the guys from the group Matt is talking about I just assume that I'm playing against the backer because he will tell them what to do over AIM or in person."
This just made me el oh el. You guys are in on so much shit that the avg player doesn't know about. How about you tell us who each "group" is and the players they consist of.
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Since I have not made any posts in regards to these scandals I felt the need to. Multi-accounting is terrible and it is taking money from all the honest players, and just because I havent been vocal about it doesnt mean it doesnt piss me off. Multi-accounter dont only gain an edge from multiplying their expectation by number of entries they have into each tournament, they also have the advantage of being unknowns that we know nothing about, while they might be very familiar with our game. This is definitely cheating and I hope JJ gets caught and all of his money confiscated, because as mantis has said I highly doubt he is going to stop anytime soon, especially if he's not punished for it.
On the issue of buying someone's seat deep in a tournament, this is nothing like what JJProdigy is doing, and frankly I dont see much wrong with this if its not punishable by the sites. I look at it as a business proposition which can be beneficial for both parties. I have never done this, but if the sites allow this, then I would have no ethical problems with doing it.
Just my honest opinion. Flame all you want.
EDIT - If I really cared what people though I wouldnt have come out and said this. I have never done this before, but if a friend of mine was deep in a tourney that was over his head, I would offer him some sort of a deal that would be beneficial to both of us, as I am pretty sure this is not an offense and against the pokersites' rules.
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Uhm...wouldnt that fall under gaining one of the advantages noone knowing who there playing against? sumthin that u jus said u didnt like..
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I WOULD LIKE TO REPHRASE THE QUESTION AGAIN:
IS / SHOULD IT BE ILLEGAL IF THIS PLAYER PURCHASING ANOTHER PLAYERS ACCOUNT HAS ALREADY BUSTED THE EXACT SAME TOURNAMENT EARLIER AS PER THE SITUATION I BROUGHT UP IN THE OP
Is this once again in a sense multiaccounting?
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pariah
(United States)
1,730
Posts.
Joined
04-08-2006.
08-18-2007 1:14 PM
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In reply to
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But doesn't buying an account also mean buying an edge just as you already described, ie "they also have the advantage of being unknowns that we know nothing about, while they might be very familiar with our game"?
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Atimos. I completely agree with you on the first issue, but really think you contadict yourself on buying seats.
Based on what you said about multi-accounting giving the player an unfair advantage on knowing your game, but you now knowing his. Well. doesn't someone buying a seat late in a tourney do the exact same thing. He still knows your game, and you might think you know his, but now all of a sudden, you really don't, and could really cost you if you don't catch this early enough to change your play against that player (especially if they have dramatically different styles)
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"So the Chris Savage moral police"
Lol, as if this is my issue. You can try to deflect it towards me all you want. It's an issue for everyone, and when people try to scam, find loopholes, take unfair advantages etc it speaks volumes of your integrity.
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