Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
Ummm this is P5's, if your such a 2+2 fan why not carry your ass there? ( In reference to your 2+2 pokerstove reference.) Please don't ever disparage this sacred forum with that 2+2 garbage
By the way, and just for the sake of argument...
You clearly state that you young bucks are terrific at always taking advantage of plus ev situations.
When Nick Schulman folded 44 to Tony Lisandro's all in move when heads up, did he make a bad play? Since the majority of the time he knows he is the favorite against an unpaired hand, and since you only get a paired hand once every 16 times, then he knows he is a plus ev to call, correct?
Well, lookie here, he folded, and got his chips in later as a 90% favorite with one card to come when he had a flush vs Tony's two pair. So, did he make a better decision to pass up a positive ev situation to find a better spot?
Well, IMHO, you keep advocating to push with T high vs an all in player at a final table when the guy next to you can easily call you with a reasonable hand, and all you have to gain is isolating yourself against a player who the majority of the time is a favorite to win the pot anyhow, and there is no sidepot....
Too many negatives, not enough positives, and no matter what you say, he DID RISK 47k and his whole stack. You see when you put your chips in the middle with a player still to act trying to win 11300 and the player inbetween has a hand and a stack, there is that risk. Compound that with your hand even when not called by the SB still leaves you as a dog to win, well heck, I don't see your genius Ozzy, AJ, theorem being too much ev.
Also,
Jeff, if you don't want people to think your being pompous, quit cutting and pasting there quotes and trying to dissect them or belittle them with your snide comments. I have news for you. You don't rule. Ozzy isn't king, and I have seen Below, Ozzy and many others you mention make HORRIFICALLY BAD PLAYS. It doesn't mean that they aren't talented. It means that everyone, myself included occasionally blunder, gamble, or simply make bad decisions. Heck, I have made some of the most collossal blunders on the planet.
I can remember when I won so many tournaments it would make your head spin. If i didn't make a final table, I was surprised.
I can remember when Bax would win more tournaments in a day, a week, and a month than you can count. Now I puke when I hear naysayers say that he shouldn't be #1.
I can remember when SamE Nole COULD NOT LOSE.
I can tell you that LEGGGGGY went on a run that was easily as good as the run you are having.
I can tell you I think you are a simply brilliant fricking poker player.
I can tell you I hated when I saw your post attacking Lucky7, basically calling him a weak tight player, when all he has ever done is win, and never has said anything to be disparaged the way you so dynamically did. You ever stop to think that maybe he is establishing an image, and then using that image to capitalize later? Do you realize just how LONG TERM he has been a winning player?
I know you are really crushing right now bud, and I hope you keep doing so.... but seriously, you are a good player, but I would highly recommend that you not think of yourself and your style as that of being a demi-god.
One day we will have to have an old farts vs the young farts challenge.
You can have Ozzy, Aaron Beene, Imsolucky0, Bel0wab0ve, Colson10 and N82 (does he play?)
I'll take Bax, Sheets, Leggggy, Westtexasman, Lucky 7(faithless) and Loewa79.
Gl,
Chris.
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Dear BrSavage,
You are wrong.
You are a great player but you do not have a firm grasp of what EV is.
I'm glad you raise in position with any two cards shorthanded though.
Keep up the great work at the tables and maybe if you read 2+2 frequently you could take your game to an even higher level.
That is all
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Chris,
what hands were you calling Gobbo's shove with at that moment? Thank you.
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Just a few things.
" Ummm this is P5's, if your such a 2+2 fan why not carry your ass there? ( In reference to your 2+2 pokerstove reference.) Please don't ever disparage this sacred forum with that 2+2 garbage"
If you don't like 2+2 that's fine, but you make yourself look silly calling it garbage. 2+2 is the leading poker strategy forum and while there are some nice discussions that go on over here sometimes, 2+2 blows this place out of the water as far as strategy goes.
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Jeff,
I know you want to know his hands so you can plug it into the
pokerstove for his calling range and then prove to Chris that the play
by Gobbo is +EV. But that is a futile attempt as he has already proven
he will ignorantly deny the EV of isolating a player all in at a FT
with Ten high.
I mean, you could even throw in an ICM calculation even though Chris
admitted only the top 3 pay spots matter and the difference at this
stage didn't matter...but why bother?
Why not just give him a huge range.....the play is probably still +EV. A7^, 77^?
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I came from the school of Magic. So if I eat ass and you kiss my ass everyday, well then you sir kiss the ass of an ass eater. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWNED lol.
P.S. Not hating, just joshin ya.
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I'm curious how good that massive data base is at
statistical probability during tourns... bet the better
known players have literally thousands of mined hh's
in that mutha.
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that isn't necesarrily true Stealthmunk, vs some players gobbo would want to fold/call instead of push if they have a wide enough calling range. Brsavage did state that he would need a monster though.
Anyway, the math works out so that gobbo's play is plus EV if Brsavage is calling no more than 11% of the time.
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ahhh yes, i can smell the teen spirit.
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Calling 11% of the time doesn't take into account what hands he's
calling with that 11%of the time and gobbo's chances of winning vs
those hands.
I think the play is so trivially easy that any advanced MTT player
shouldn't think twice before making it given the stacksizes and blinds
and position
I'm surprised there is even a debate going on.
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I think in this particular situation (if it were to come up again) with the UTG pushing any two and BR knows that the SB is isolating with any two (which is the correct play, given the UTG range, the pot overlay, and how valuable those chips are to his stack) then BR can expand his range to 99+, AJ+
but i'm just a college student using his bankroll for tuition, so i dont know much
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I agree with Nick's play i would have folded the 44 ina heartbeat and wiated to get my money when i was able to push not call i mean who really would wanna gamble 1 million on 44
there is a old saying "it's easier going all in then calling a allin"
and that is the very point in all this
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and yes Brsavage, that DOES make the play a good one. Sorry if you don't understand the concept, a little researching and reading at 2+2 really would be beneficial for ANYONE.
working on it now...also Stealthmunk, an ICM calculation with that many players would be extremely difficult, as ICM increases exponentially with each player you add. Will have to use a shortcut or skip that, its not really the crux of the arguement anyway and the EV of the situation can be calculated easily using some relatively simple steps.
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shighley, if you want to talk about what Brsavage SHOULD be calling with you are right, but at the time he said that he would need a monster and he didn't know that Gobbo was pushing a wide range (he was very surprised at 108o), so I imagine Brsavage's range would be significantly tighter.
This is a closer situation than some are inferring, but at the time since Br had a tight range it was def +EV.
I think another important consideration is that the top few spots pay biggest, and Gobboboy benefits a lot from any additional chips he can gain at this point. Gigabet might even recommend a slightly -EV push in similar situations where one benefits a great deal from chips gained than chips lost (he calls this when your stack hovers on the "line" and gaining an additional "block" of chips). So its pretty clear that ICM points to gambling a lot of marginal spots in Gobboboy's position. In this case, vs Brsavage's v. tight range the push was plus EV.
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Yea, you didn't call them silly. You called them garbage. My bad.
And if you don't see the EV of the play you should look a little deeper. You yourself said that you would need a monster to call, so about 90% of the time he's risking 3k to win 11k. And even the times he is called he'll still win like 20-25% of the time vs you so I think the value of the play is pretty evident for anyone that wants to look at the play.
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