Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
I realize this may sound like a strange question, but I pose it just the same. I have been reading some books and shit like that. I played the $10 sng's and low limit multi's. My results have been mediocre. I have looked in the books and there isn't anything that will defend against all these lunatics calling everything with everything at these lower limits. Frustration level is high because these books do tell you to be able to consistently 'beat' these lower limits before moving on. I sit and play solid poker only to have my game come to a screeching halt by some douchebag who has 100 more chips than I do call my pocket 9 all in preflop raise w/10-4 suited out of position and catch a 10 on the river.
I have leaped up to the $50 sng's. I am more comfortable in these games, get better reads on people and I feel the level of play is more like what I am supposed to be playing. My results have been better, but I only have a very small sample. At any rate, I am more comfortable playing there, feel like I'm learning more and having better results...does anyone see anything wrong with moving up in limits without "beating" the lower limits first? Especially if you are getting favorable results? Thanks for the input!
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my name ring a bell? make sure you have the proper bankroll before jumping.. i played the gasme your playing now for a long time and made some good cash. but now its not really at that fun.
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Play the lowest limits possible, for as long as possible. And you
aren't doing it for the money, you are doing it to get used to the
worst calls and worst suck outs possible, and you won't mind as much
later. And its good donkey dodgeing practice.
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thanks for the comments guys...readzie...why is it not that much fun now? i don't understand what it is you're trying to say. you said it was good money for a while, but now its not that much fun anymore??? do you play for fun or do you play to make money? there is a difference...
wow...why would you want to play the lowest levels possible for as long as possible? this doesn't make much sense to me either. and as for the donkey dodging...that just pisses me off even more. when you push with pocket Aces and get called by 10-8 offsuit and they suck out in some amazing way...how can that be good for you? you can't possibly get away from that.
my point was that i spend time studying the game. most books are geared toward "playing like the pro's" and higher limit games. i believe the strategies are more upper level limits and things that will come in handy in a game where you are playing with others that know how to play. pretty much in the lower levels against all the 'donkeys', there isn't much skill involved so i don't feel i'm really learning anything at all at the lower limits.
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I have acutally found the opposite to be true believe it or not. Let me explain. For me personally I've found that I can bluff more consistantly at the lower limits ($5 SNG and such) than at higher level tourneys. If you put those players into situations post flop they usually only play back if they hit any of the flop. The other night I had no cards at all but was 3rd in chips because I won my first 8 pots without a showdown. I have found that as I go up in buyin levels players will play back at me a lot more and with more aggression whether they hit the flop or not as I am apt to do. I find I have to really watch the players a lot more as they will not play the same predictable way that lower level players do. The style of play that has worked for me is to observe the opponents the first couple of times the blinds go around and learn who I can pick on and do just that. Ever since I read an article on here from a ranked player who played down to 12th in a MTT and only had to showdown 2 hands I have completely changed my game. It was a difficult transition, but the saying is true: "Play the people, not the cards". To answer your questions I say that I don't see a problem moving up without beating the lower limits first if your bankroll can handle it and you are willing to gamble with that money and not get upset if you lose it. Playing with money you are afraid to lose is a formula for failure on the poker sites. Getting favorable results is always a good start, but until you've played a few hundred times at that level and can get a better measure of your expected earnings. But if you are truly more comfortable playing in the upper limits and posess good money management skills, then I say give it a try. The worst that will happen is your bankroll dries up. The only problem I see here is that if you do hit a rough patch, you can't just move down a level and play there because you aren't comfortable playing with lower limit players. Truly I'd recommend beating the lower limits first, but to be successful you have to be comfortable where you are playing. If that happens to be at the higher limits then so be it. Just be able to realize if you're ever in over your head and have the good sense to drop down a couple of levels if you find that you are a losing player at the higher limits. Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
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You have to let your bankroll dictate where you should play regardless of how many donkey suckout artists there are there. Poker is all about adapting to the game. So you have to find a way to beat those games. They are very beatable, trust me. Do not look at short term results.
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I hear this argument all the time 'I cant beat the bad players so I am going to move up and beat the good players'...... you are just getting lucky at the higher level and need to go down and make sure you cant beat each level before you move up. Otherwise the 'good players' at the $50 level will just exploit these holes in your game using the tricks they learned at the $5 tables. good luck
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bud05
(United States)
313
Posts.
Joined
02-22-2005.
10-25-2005 9:25 AM
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In reply to
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I've actually started enjoying donkey dodging, much more fun to be able to get your money in as a 3:1 or 4:1 favorite than have to deal with rocks at a sng for 1 1/2 hours.
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iis612
(United States)
301
Posts.
Joined
06-01-2005.
10-25-2005 9:43 AM
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In reply to
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I have often thought that I have been playing below my skill level. However, I am not going to change that just yet, for 2 important reasons:
1. Bankroll management. My roll is held at a certain level (because I withdraw, or deposit to keep it there)
2. Donkey dodging is money. I can turn over a low level sng faster than I can a higher level. Which means that I can make more money over an 8 hour period playing low levels, as opposed to grinding rocks for 1.5/2 hours. A $5 or $10 sng is typically over in .75/1 hour.
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CFH101
(United States)
3,539
Posts.
Joined
04-05-2005.
10-25-2005 10:24 AM
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In reply to
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To the OP , you should be able to make a profit at ANY level if your a winning player. Its all about adjusting to your competition ....... which is vital to success in poker.
Playing against these low-level donks the same as you would a good mid-high level player is a bad idea........ you must adjust your strategies to each .
*** I've probaly read a bunch of the same books you have, and most of them have been helpful ....
But good to hear your doing well at the 50's man ....... keep it up
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Still more great comments and I am enjoying reading all of them. Thank you and I offer yet some more to think about...
There was a comment that said you can't play the cards and you can't play the player because they are bound to hold anything...wow...how are you supposed to play then?
Another comment says that you have to adjust your game. In my opinion, these $10 games are horrible and the play outright sucks. I have spent a lot of time and money learning how to play better, why would I now want to start playing like shit just to beat the shitty games?
Another says I am just getting lucky at the higher level. This may very well be a true statement. I may just be lucky? I may just have found a level more consistent with my style of play? I may finally see my education paying off for me and I may finally be in a place and a level that I should have been playing all along?
Lots of maybe's and only time will tell. Thanks again for the comments...I appreciate your insight!
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Keep track of your results in a spreadsheet of some kind and let us know how it goes. I am very curious to see if it's possible for a player to lose the "easy" games but be a consistant winner in the "tough" games. It would certainly fly in the face of convention. Keep us informed and GL at the tables.
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CFH101
(United States)
3,539
Posts.
Joined
04-05-2005.
10-25-2005 11:18 AM
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In reply to
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hey brian21, first up - you missed my point . I don't mean stoop to their level .......... I mean play a different, solid form of poker. I'm a low-level player ( and I'm actually moving up levels at the end of the month ..... go me ) and I profit nicely month in and month out. Its not luck . I'm just a better player than the majority of players I run into and know how to take advantage of them .....
Here's what I meant by playing differently :
When you sit down , start off the session by playing solid, fundamental poker. Play good starting hands . As you continue in your session you'll get a feel for who can play and who's a donk. Now when involved in a hand , see who's in the pot with you. If its an ok player , you can open up your arsenal a little bit : chk-raise bluffs, semi-bluffin, continuation bets, etc.
If its the donk in the hand with ya, play it straight forward.
Don't get to involved if you don't develop anything after the flop --- cause you'll get called by top pair , seven kicker all night.
But when you get a good hand ( set, 2-pr) bet the shit out of it. They will call and they will lose.
It amazes me how much they will pay you off with marginal holdings........ wait for your edge against these bad players, while trapping or disguising your hand against the good players ........
*** BTW , I've RARELY played at any table where EVRYONE was a total donk . There are always a few good players . The key , IMO, at lower levels is recognizing who is who and then playing them accordingly.
*** BTWII --- lol There are bad/awful players at EVERY level, so if you think donks who love K4o don't exist at the $50 level .... well best of luck with that . They're everywhere!!!!!
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There is no skill level below mine.
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If it pisses you off, then you shouldn't play higher levels. You won't
get as mad losing a few bucks and it isn't as devestating. And you
learn how to control your temper. There is no reason to get mad at what
someone else does. They make a call for whatever reason. Getting mad
usually makes you lose.
Its like when people show you their cards after the bluffed you off.
You fell pissed, you go on tilt, and then you get owned. I now can just
laugh it off, think nice bet and just wait, whereas before I would get
mad, and end up losing.
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