Poker Discussion Post

fold river, why else would he call u down all the way and bet that river without have making his house or flush?

FabulousTexan:

I'm not posting this as a bad beat but as the answer to the frustrated posts from the low limit player who's getting killed by opponents sucking out and making horrible plays.

The post usually goes something like this... Hand history where the hero bets 3-5x with preflop with a good hand. Some donkey either calls or even pushes over the top with a mediocre pair, weak ace, or any 2 suited. Hero bets to deny the draw, villain chases. Villain hits a miralce river and busts the hero.

Hero is amazed how such bad play is rewarded.

Hero posts here wondering if he should move up in limits because people, the logic goes, better players won't make dumb calls preflop and won't chase draws to the river regardless of pot odds.

I understand the frustration because I started playing the $5 SnGs and worked my way up. I remember becoming enraged a few occassions when some donkey made a mind numbingly horrid play and was rewarded. And, yeah, sometimes they come in series.

You're looking for answers and the rationalization is playing "players that know how to play right" won't make stupid plays and suckout.

PokerStars Game #19486021738: Tournament #101111438, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/08/09 - 14:46:00 (ET)
Table '101111438 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: ChampsPoker (880 in chips)
Seat 2: bluebuilder (2300 in chips)
Seat 3: npfd14 (1420 in chips)
Seat 4: roeydo (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: al monaco (1480 in chips)
Seat 6: elwayrulz (1420 in chips)
Seat 7: dj26xxx (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: johneecanuck (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: TexnNOcala (1500 in chips)
npfd14: posts small blind 10
roeydo: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TexnNOcala [Ah Kd]
al monaco: folds
elwayrulz: calls 20
dj26xxx: folds
johneecanuck: folds
TexnNOcala: raises 80 to 100
ChampsPoker: folds
bluebuilder: calls 100
npfd14: folds
roeydo: folds
elwayrulz: calls 80
*** FLOP *** [Kh 8h Ac]
elwayrulz: checks
TexnNOcala: bets 185
bluebuilder: calls 185
elwayrulz: folds
*** TURN *** [Kh 8h Ac] [2c]
TexnNOcala: bets 425
bluebuilder: calls 425
*** RIVER *** [Kh 8h Ac 2c] [2h]
TexnNOcala: checks
bluebuilder: bets 740
TexnNOcala: raises 50 to 790 and is all-in
bluebuilder: calls 50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TexnNOcala: shows [Ah Kd] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
bluebuilder: shows [Jh 4h] (a flush, King high)
TexnNOcala said, "DEAR GOID"
bluebuilder collected 3130 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3130 | Rake 0
Board [Kh 8h Ac 2c 2h]
Seat 1: ChampsPoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: bluebuilder (button) showed [Jh 4h] and won (3130) with a flush, King high
Seat 3: npfd14 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: roeydo (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: al monaco folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: elwayrulz folded on the Flop
Seat 7: dj26xxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: johneecanuck folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: TexnNOcala showed [Ah Kd] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings

The point here isn't to whine about a bad beat but just point out that there is horrible play at levels higher than $5 and $10.

As frustrating as it is at the moment, long term you should understand that guys making horrible plays will pay you.

If you keep playing good poker you will build your bankroll and your skill will improve to where you move up because you've got the bankroll and the game to compete with better players.

Moving up because you want to avoid bad players? Not the answer.

330 in pot on flop and you bet 185 giving him a little under 3:1 which is sufficient odds to chase a flush on the flop. 700 on turn and you bet 425 again giving him a little under 3:1. Now his call is not proper but not horrible either. Bet more on the flop or turn at least to get him off his probable draw. If he chases down pot-sized bets then you have something to bitch about.

I must say that reading the poker discussion forum anymore, is almost untolerable to me.

Randinho:

330 in pot on flop and you bet 185 giving him a little under 3:1 which is sufficient odds to chase a flush on the flop. 700 on turn and you bet 425 again giving him a little under 3:1. Now his call is not proper but not horrible either. Bet more on the flop or turn at least to get him off his probable draw. If he chases down pot-sized bets then you have something to bitch about.

I was happy for the action.. it just didn't work out for me.

Like you said... he had UNDER 3:1... I wanted him to chase a flush draw or play AQ/AJ etc. I didn't want to completely shut him down. I want bad players to make bad chases. Sometimes it doesn't work and it's frustrating. But long-term... you get paid off.

The point of the was pointing out that the plays you see at $5 and $10 tables are the same ones you see at higher stakes.

FabulousTexan:

The point of the was pointing out that the plays you see at $5 and $10 tables are the same ones you see at higher stakes.

 

RichardHurtz:

FabulousTexan:

The point of the was pointing out that the plays you see at $5 and $10 tables are the same ones you see at higher stakes.

 

A $50 buy in is not high stakes.

Texan doesn't claim it is high stakes anywhere in her post. It is higher than the players who come on here bitchin about a bad beat in a $5/10 sng or mtt who thinks they need to move up limits to avoid bad suckouts. It is a good example for those players. She doesn't need a $100 or $150 mtt for the example.

FabulousTexan:

Randinho:

330 in pot on flop and you bet 185 giving him a little under 3:1 which is sufficient odds to chase a flush on the flop. 700 on turn and you bet 425 again giving him a little under 3:1. Now his call is not proper but not horrible either. Bet more on the flop or turn at least to get him off his probable draw. If he chases down pot-sized bets then you have something to bitch about.

But I'm not bitching. I'm not posting in the bad beats.

I was happy for the action.. it just didn't work out for me.

Like you said... he had UNDER 3:1... I wanted him to chase a flush draw or play AQ/AJ etc. I didn't want to completely shut him down. I want bad players to make bad chases. Sometimes it doesn't work and it's frustrating. But long-term... you get paid off.

The point of the was pointing out that the plays you see at $5 and $10 tables are the same ones you see at higher stakes.

 

 why are you checking and raising all in on river? you should either shove or check fold....i cant seem to find a logical reason why you would check call or raise the river.

I'm not claiming I played it great. Yeah, I kinda got caught in no-man's land on the river and didn't know where I was.

My point was that people still call big raises preflop with J6s and chase flushes $5 or $50 tourney.

I hear this a lot as it relates to SNGs

In a $500 SNG, when you are in 4th place on the bubble, you'll have to fight like hell for a spot, because the others aren't making loose calls.  In a $5 SNG, you often back in because 3rd place called the chipleader's frequent shoves with K9 s0000000ted.

In a $500 SNG, when you are in 3rd place on the bubble, your hands are tied as blind after blind is stolen.  In a $5 SNG, often the chipleader is bad enough to give you a walk or let you see a free flop!

In a $500 SNG, early on when you get it allin preflop with KK, you are against QQ+ most of the time, and often not QQ.  In a $5 SNG, you are up against AJ+ or 88+, and often worse.

Which opponents would you rather play? lol

There are good players and bad players at all levels from 1 cent NL to 200/400NL.. If you cant beat the good players and the bad players at the microlevels then your not going to be able to beat them at the higher buy-ins either. Stop caring about how other people play. Play your game.. Let them play anyway they want.. You play good you will beat em.