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Jennifear's bankroll and cashout strategy for low limit sng specialists aspiring to move up.
Jennifear (United States) 9,064 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005.
07-28-2006 8:08 AM

     The top 5% of online players in terms of ability, are not the top 5% players in terms of total cashouts.  In fact, the biggest losers playing today are some of the best players, playing one limit too high, or without bankroll discipline.  My goal with the following post is to help you become part of the latter group, the winners.

     This post does not take bonus whoring into account, but I recommend using that technique in conjunction with this one.

     It's for the sng players, and there are many of us, that have a hard time identifying what level they should be playing at to maximize their profits.  A mistake that many players have is not paying themselves along the way while trying to accumulate a bankroll for their desired level of play.

     I recommend first that you identify first whether or not you can beat the $5 sng games.  Over time, this should become apparent to you.  If you cannot, playing sngs as a source of income is really ludicrous.

     Anyone with a bankroll of $300 or lower, in my opinion, should be playing $5.50-$6.50 sngs.  This is well above previously stated bankroll requirements written by Fox and others on this site.  The reason for this is that the requirements set forth by Fox and others assume you are always beating the game, where in fact, many players go through phases of poor play that make them losers in the short term.  For instance, a player with a 30% roi can fall into a slump of playing bad hands, overvaluing hands, and doing things that are getting themselves in trouble, making them short-term losing players.

     Once you have attained $300 or more, a move up to $10-12 sngs is justified, until your bankroll is at $1,000.  Should you drop below $300, your first move is to drop down levels.  At this point, it's time to pay yourself back.  Now that you have completely eliminated the risk of ruin, you want to take funds from POKER and put them into LIFE.  So the strategy is to "tax" yourself 10% of GROSS winnings from here, forward, to be earmarked for withdrawal, and withdraw the funds immediately as soon as you reach the site's minimum withdrawal requirement.  This will ensure that you don't have the temptation to put this money back into your poker bankroll when you hit a skid.  You will begin to feel better as you pay yourself, and play prime poker, hoping to add to your withdrawal total.  You will be playing with a purpose. 

     The other thing that this accomplishes is that it becomes harder to get to $1,000 this way.  When you get to $1,000, you can begin to play $22-27 sngs.  In order to even get to $1,000, you will have to have about a 20% roi at the $10-12 level to beat the rake, the "tax", and have money above that.  If you can beat the $10-12 games at 20%, you are ready for the next level.  Also by waiting until you are at $1,000 to move up, you are ensuring a big enough sample size at your current level that you aren't being affected in your judgment due to short-term good variance.  I think moving beyond this level requires about a $2500 bankroll.  I'll stop here because this post is intended for the low-limit grinder.

     Continue to "tax" yourself 10% , and set high bankroll requirements until you don't feel you can beat the next level up.  When this happens, simply start "taxing" yourself 50% instead, and become a better student of the game, reading a lot, and getting new ideas, maybe signing up for an online poker school, until you feel ready to conquer the world again.

     Put a stop-loss on yourself of 6 buyins/day at your current level, or stop playing at the first sign of frustration.  You don't ever want to damage your hard work by playing outside you bankroll, or chasing losses. 

     If you follow these strategies, you will never feel too much pressure to win a game,  you will have a constant, small income coming in, and you will feel better about yourself, allowing yourself to play to the best of your ability.

     After all, the way we keep score isn't the level we play at, it's the number of dollars coming in.

Best of luck,

Jennifear

 
 
 

jintster (United Kingdom) 133 Posts. Joined 05-10-2006.
07-28-2006 8:14 AM - In reply to

Very good solid advice, though I'm nmore conservative than this. Only thing I disagree with is the implication that you should wait until you can't beat a level before you start to seriously study the game.

Jennifear (United States) 9,064 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005.
07-28-2006 8:16 AM - In reply to

Thanks for the great reply.

I don't feel that there is ever a time where studying the game isn't profitable, so I agree with you.  I should have clarified this better.

MadTiger (United States) 6,245 Posts. Joined 02-10-2006.
07-28-2006 8:24 AM - In reply to

Move to the head of the class.

While you were discussing SnGs and low limits, the principles are very applicable to other areas.

degenrat (United States) 877 Posts. Joined 02-03-2006.
07-28-2006 8:29 AM - In reply to

nice post.

tieful (Canada) 1,485 Posts. Joined 01-14-2006.
07-28-2006 8:30 AM - In reply to

Very good article. If you're a winning player PAY YOURSELF ... regularly.

Edals (United States) 1,605 Posts. Joined 02-17-2006.
07-28-2006 8:31 AM - In reply to

I've never been a big fan of SNG's, but I will give this a try just to test it out.

If it works, I owe you oral.

jintster (United Kingdom) 133 Posts. Joined 05-10-2006.
07-28-2006 8:31 AM - In reply to

Also, if you're playing well within your br you can afford to take some time familiarising yourself with various moves you've learnt from your studying.

What do you think about moving up in stages, Jennifear? For example, I deposited $200 to dtart with, donked a win in a 180 $4.40 and withdrew my initial but in. I'm now at $900 having played the $6.50s and lower mainly. Once I got to $750 I started to play 1 in 4 $11s and $12s. When/if I get to $1,000 I'll make it 50/50. $1,250 and I'll switch exclusively.


GopherFan28 (United States) 32 Posts. Joined 02-23-2006.
07-28-2006 9:01 AM - In reply to

Nice post.  Definitely something to consider.  My bankroll is currently in the 350-400 range and I primarily play 5.50 SnG's.  I have been wondering when I should jump to the $11's.  I was thinking I should be closer to 450-500. 

Jennifear (United States) 9,064 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005.
07-28-2006 9:08 AM - In reply to

Your risk of ruin is very low if you take on the $5 sngs with $300.  However, I definately recommend staying within a comfort zone.  The strategy works the same if you choose different br numbers :)

FlashOver 2,695 Posts. Joined 05-05-2005.
07-28-2006 9:11 AM - In reply to

Or just take 26 bucks and finish in the top 2 and BAM you have a decent starting BR.  =P

Good article jenn.

jdro (United States) 695 Posts. Joined 03-19-2006.
07-28-2006 9:14 AM - In reply to

This plan WORKS.  Let me say Jennifear is quite near the vicinity of BRILLIANT (and outstandingly hot too, what more can you ask for?)

She has helped me a TON and started me on this plan every since I broke $350, anytime my br is above $350 I tax myself 10%.  My br is currently at around $420 and I have cashout out almsot $90.  It's cool to think of it like that, if not yes my br would be over $500, BUT I've already paid myself back almsot $100 for the losses I incurred before I really buckled down and read and took the game seriously as a possible small side-income later in life...

SO, let me say, for anyone interested in this theory, it REALLY is a good plan...

Thanks again Jenn

grapsfan (United States) 6,064 Posts. Joined 06-16-2005.
07-28-2006 9:17 AM - In reply to

Excellent post, Jennifear, especially for those looking to go through the first round of bankroll building.  Cashing out, so you can reap the benefits of your successes rather than just playing higher, is a VERY good thing indeed.

One thing I'd like to point out is how important it is to track your results to the best of your ability.  There's a lot of good tools, spreadsheets, etc., that will allow you to predict future results based on your past play.  Use those predictors to adjust bankroll expectations.  As an example, if you've built a bankroll up to $1500, and you know that you've got an expected ROI of 24% at the 10+1 level...if you cash out $1200 for whatever, and leave $300 behind, you should feel far more comfortable getting right back into the 10+1s and staying there even if you drop $50 or so in the first bunch you play.

Once you've built a bankroll, ALWAYS have the confidence to know that you can do it again.

Jennifear (United States) 9,064 Posts. Joined 11-01-2005.
07-28-2006 9:18 AM - In reply to

Thanks for your reply graps.  I enjoy your articles and think they add a ton to the community.  I also feel your record-keeping advice is well-warranted, and a great addition to my post.  Appreciate it.


epicatc (United States) 1,699 Posts. Joined 04-20-2005.
07-28-2006 9:19 AM - In reply to

Very good post Jen, well thought out. Just enough action to keep people from getting bored in the grind, but still enough discipline to keep from blowing it all playing too high.
 
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