Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
Here is the email I got from PartyPoker yesterday morning:
Dear Mr Bonomo,
This communication is to inform you of the findings of an investigation launched internally by partypoker.com into six accounts originating from your own location and computer.
These are the accounts in question:
ZeeJustin
IBLUFFUOUT69
jwilson55
vapoker58
mehsab
greenb272
These accounts have been systematically used to enter the same Multi Table Tournaments as a ýteamý, in a deception that is in direct violation of our Terms and Conditions.
Although registered in different names, these accounts have been created with the sole intention of playing as multiple accounts in the same tournaments. All six accounts were consistently logged into at the same time from the same IP/System and show a consistent pattern of being played by the same person.
A decision has been made, in consultation with the Poker Room Manager, Legal and Management, to close these accounts permanently and confiscate all funds. I would ask that you do not attempt to open any further accounts with our company, as these will be closed and any monies therein will be deemed forfeited.
Furthermore, please be informed that we have withdrawn your PPMV Cruise Package and you will no longer appear on the passenger list.
Steve Winter
Manager, Investigations Team
Yes, it’s true. I did use these accounts to enter multiple accounts in the same multi table tournaments. I have never done this in a tournament with less than 1,000 players.
I have been at the same table as myself. For what it’s worth, my standard protocol has been to increase my number of tables when this happens. As most of you know, I will very rarely be playing fewer than six tables at a time. If I had 6 tables open and two of my accounts were brought to the same table, I would simply open up 4-6 more SNGs. I felt that this would negate my unethical advantage. With 10 tables open, I just play tight and solid. I can’t even remember the hole cards one account folded after the flop, and I’m certainly unable to pay special attention to that table. After talking to Curtains, I realize my standard play should have been to sit one account out when this happens, but I want to make it clear that I never used collusion to my advantage, never chip dumped, or did anything of the sort.
However, what Party emailed me is wrong on several subjects.
First of all, the accounts were NOT created solely for MTT use. They were originally created for SNG play. It got to the point where everyone knew that ZeeJustin would steal the blinds often, and everyone called him liberally. I created these accounts to erase this loose image. Everyone would be readless against me, and it was a huge advantage. These accounts all did very well in the big SNGs on PartyPoker.
N82 referred to a hack that let you open multiple Party clients. I have no clue how no one has mentioned this yet, but no such hack was necessary. This is important, so listen up.
All you had to do was click the PartyPoker icon on your desktop very rapidly. If you did that, multiple clients would open up.
Using this bug, I was able to play multiple accounts on the same computer at the same time. I would be in a step 5 on one name, while playing a mini step 5 on another, and no one would ever suspect that it was me.
All of the money that was seized from me was from sit’n’go play where nothing unethical was done. I never entered multiple accounts into the same sit’n’go, never colluded with anyone, never soft played anyone and never chip dumped with anyone.
The other accounts I used never had any big MTT scores. Combined, I am pretty sure they were all long-term losers in the few MTT’s they played. Despite this, almost $100,000 was seized from my accounts.
For those of you that feel safe because my money was taken, open up your eyes. This money will not be returned to the players in any way. PartyPoker is keeping it because they can, just like they did with JJProdigy’s $40,000, and just like they will do to you when you get caught.
I know what you’re thinking right now, “I won’t get caught, because I didn’t do anything wrong.”
First of all, that doesn’t matter. PartyPoker reserves the right to take your money for any reason at any time (although I should point out that this does not make it legal).
Secondly, almost all of you have broken the rules at some point. How many of you have created a second account for rakeback? Neither creating a second account nor receiving rakeback is allowed. Both are expressly forbidden. Maybe you’ll see things my way once all your money is seized for doing that. If I’m a cheater, so are you.
If you are a saint like CSC claims to be, kudos to you. You are in the minority, and are certainly upstanding citizens. I commend you on following Party’s rules and not receiving rakeback. Most of us are too greedy to pass up money that easy.
Furthermore, I would like to point out, that I did NOT break the rules.
5. True Identity and One Account.
The name on your Account must match your true and legal name and identity and the name on your Account registration must match the name on the credit card(s) or other payment accounts used to deposit or receive monies in your Account. You are prohibited from holding more than one Account. If you have more than one (1) Account or Accounts in different names, then you must contact us immediately to have your Accounts managed so that you only have one (1). If you have lost your Account name or password, please contact us for a replacement.
I have one account. That account is named ZeeJustin. My brother also has an account named Bernard61 (formerly jwilson55), and I have used that account quite often. No where in Party’s rules does it say you cannot use someone else’s account. I’m sure many of you have used friends’ accounts before, and there is nothing wrong with this. People will often take over MTT’s for friends that have unforeseen obligations.
I do think what I’ve done is unethical, and I certainly regret doing it, however, I need to point out that no where in Party’s rules is it stated that you cannot enter multiple accounts into the same tournament. Not only do they not forbid it, but to open multiple clients on the same PC, all you have to do is click the icon a bit more rapidly than normal. Great work PartyPoker.
To further show how corrupt PartyPoker is, here is an email I got today from my affiliate manager.
Dear Justin,
We hereby give you notice that we are terminating our Standard Affiliate Agreement (the “Agreement”) with you. Clause 5.3 of the Agreement states that we are entitled to terminate our Agreement without cause immediately upon this written notice to you. We will also be exercising our right under clause 5.3 to terminate all trackers that you have with us.
We ask that you familiarize yourself with clause 5.5 of the Agreement which sets out the effects of termination. We require you to stop promoting our Site and you are no longer entitled to use our Marketing Materials. We also remind you that the obligation of confidentiality and non-disclosure shall, amongst other things, survive the termination of the Agreement.
Yours sincerely
PartyGaming
Sarah Hunter
Affiliate Relations
PartyGaming Marketing (UK)
Email: sarahh@partygaming.com
London Office +44 (0) 20 7337 0100
18 King William Street, London, EC4N 7BP
www.partygaming.com
This email is sent by PartyGaming Marketing (UK), a provider of services to PartyGaming Marketing (Gibraltar). The contents of this email may be subject to approval by an authorized representative of PartyGaming Marketing (Gibraltar).
The information contained in this email, and any attachments hereto, is strictly confidential and solely intended for use by the individual(s) and/or entity(s) to which it is addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify the System Manager at admin@partygaming.com as soon as possible
I have not broken the affiliate agreement in any way shape or form, so PartyPoker is using good old clause 5.3 to stop paying me simply because they can. If this makes you feel safe, you are being completely illogical. It can and will happen to more people, this I guarantee. You’re not safe at all.
In conclusion, I want to make it clear that I regret what I did, and have done somethings that were unethical. Despite this, PartyPoker’s actions are unreasonable, and their power to take the same actions against you should not be taken lightly. This rampage that PartyPoker is on will certainly not end with me. So whatever you do, be careful.
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Very solid second post. While I may disagree with your thesis, I respect your well thought out arguement. Just one counterpoint, please don't let your post count get above 3.
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WHO CARES IF HE CHEATED!!!!
You guys are missing the most important part of his post!
He just told everyone HOW it was so easy to cheat on Party.
And while i agree with some of you, I also see what ZJ is saying with PP. they do not care if they confiscate funds of those that might have cheated in the future. I would expect to hear of someone pretty soon who has not cheated, yet had their funds taken by party.
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This guy make JJ sound like an honest guy. I'm not even going to waste my time picking apart his post as its a complete joke. I just hope the sites keep investigating and eventually weed out all these idiots.
My only problem is the sites keeping the money. They need to have the 100K ZEEJustin freeroll and the 40K JJ freeroll. Other than that I applaud Party for finally doing what is right although they should have been keeping better tabs all along.
A.J.
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ZJ lives in fantasy land.
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Freerolls would be nice : )
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Monthly confiscated funds freeroll? Prizepool this month would be pretty solid.
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my favorite part is how he flamed the rest of us as cheaters. i've never cheated never even considered it. like he said i guess i'm just a saint. sorry if i didn't feel the contrition in his apology.
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Dolphinhead is right. We should let the cheaters play when and wherever they want. And if you are unlucky and get seated at the same table as ZeeJustin and 2 of his other accts, then so be it. Too bad!
I just hope Zee gets his $ back, cause lord knows he deserves it. Right? Ummmmm, NO!!!!! F Zee and all the other cheaters. Id rather have the poker sites keep the $ for themselves than to let these clowns get off with a free pass.
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I guess the thing that continues to impress me is how naive these young, smart, great players are. They know what they are doing is (at the least) pushing the limits of what is acceptable, yet they do not take simple precautions like playing on different computers and/or having different IP's. And on top of that they leave huge amounts of money on the sites where it is susceptible to confiscation.
With that said, huge sums of money are involved and it will be very easy for Justin to create another account on Party under another person's name. If he doesn't already have such an account set up, it will likely happen very soon. There is simply too much money involved for Justin for him not to do so.
BTW Justin, for whatever reason I do believe you when you say you didn't chip dump or try to trap someone between your two accounts or things like that. But I'm just flabbergasted that someone as smart as you didn't take more precautions to prevent something like this happening. Actually, I think it is an indication that you really didn't think you were cheating egregiously.
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WiCane
(United States)
2,342
Posts.
Joined
01-05-2006.
02-24-2006 4:24 PM
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I just read your website and was impressed with your content and poker knowledge.
However, this statement is shameful, you are acting like PartyPoker did you wrong, YOU CHEATED. I know I probably don't matter because I am not a big time player but your excuses are bullshit. You cheated, you got caught. It pisses me off that now we have to question everyone's results. Some of the top players only have one account and have worked hard to get where they are at and some, like you, cheated and scammed your way to the top. This stuff coming out really makes me lose faith in people.
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keedog
(United States)
137
Posts.
Joined
01-13-2006.
02-24-2006 4:25 PM
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Who needs multiple accounts when you have hole card readers, RNG jammers, Hole Card Changers, Opponent Computer take over client, Opponent Virus Infector, and invisble funds transfer server?
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jsbyun
(United States)
1,849
Posts.
Joined
02-07-2005.
02-24-2006 4:27 PM
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ZeeJustin, I understand what you are trying to say, but the bottom line is that you still knowingly cheated. You're trying to downplay what you did and explain that you are being excessively punished and getting penalized for more than you deserve, but unfortunately that is price you pay.
I do agree with your comments about unregulated poker and how they can freeze accounts and seize funds for whatever reason they want. I had a similar experience myself and I know what it feels like. Stuff like this will continue and innocent people will become victims too (although ZJ, you are guilty).
http://www.pocketfives.com/DA88BFD8-948E-4D4B-A3B8-FAC9BFE7B29E.aspx
I unwittingly violated one of UB's rules even though it did not harm anyone, but they still tried to use this as justification for seizing almost $30K at the time.
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That is actually a great idea, and something that would help restore their public image. I wonder if they received a ton of emails both complaining about their site's security and recommending that they do something like this would make a difference. But then again, I wonder how many people would try to enter multiple accounts into the freeroll. lol.
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MKGB
(United States)
613
Posts.
Joined
10-31-2005.
02-24-2006 4:31 PM
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Here is an equation for the math-types: Greed + Youth + Ignorance = Multiple accounts.
Dolphin, if you really think people are hating get your head checked, some people realize that corruption in online gambling could lead to its prohibition. The people that are "snitching," as you say, don't want that to happen bc they love the game. I'm pretty sure their care about a few select individuals that don't have any ethics is nothing compared to their care for online poker.
The saddest part about Zee's post is that he believes he is not doing anything wrong saying that he "never used collusion to my advantage, never chip dumped, or did anything of the sort." Any logical person would argue that those things are possible when one uses multiple accounts, and that is why the rule exists that people cannot use this practice. The possibility of people doing this IS the reason why the online sites are cracking down, no one is going to trust you or just take your word for it. I'm not sure what you guys who multi-account don't understand about this, for such bright kids you really are very ignorant people.
I also really enjoy the part at the end about how if he is a cheater, so is everyone else. What a pompous asshole, not everyone is using multiple accounts bc they enjoy the challenge of poker and they also know that if there is widespread breaking of the rules then it will likely be prohibited in the U.S. How happy would we all be if online gambling is banned bc a few douchebag kids are "too greedy to pass up money that easy." If online poker goes away you guys are screwed bc the rest of society has pretty stringent rules about cheating and stealing from people, GL to you!
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It's official, ALL successful players in MTT's under 22 cheat!
Guilty until proven innocent, thank JJ and ZJ for that.
DISGUSTING!
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