Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
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In my opinion, most players who play poker online are really hurting themselves or potentially not doing as well as they could be. First off, most players lose money. The statistic is debated but about 90 percent of players actually lose money. A great deal of them lose money they can not afford to lose but due to addiction or the belief that they can make it big , they continue to play, which can have very large negative consquences. Some players do make money, but almost every single one overestimates how much they can make. This leads to some stupid decisions such as quitting their job and even worse, not going to college. Alot of these young guns are skipping college, going down the poker road. First off, your love for the game can dwindle. Second off, you are without a back up plan. Thirdly, you are ruining a great chance to grow as a person. Even the good players also go through addiction, and poker can sometimes consume their lives. One of the worst things with online poker is the time that you lose or the decease in other more important things. The time you spend playing poker could be used to go out, meet a friend, perhaps a girlfriend. It could be spent exercising and working on ones health. It could also be spent doing things like schoolwork, reading, etc. Poker is a great game. Online poker though is something though which i believe is not a positive influence for most people who play it. Im not saying it should be banned, as one should have the right to do what they want with their money. But i believe most people who play this game should take a seriously look at this game and the things they may be missing out on and decide if its worth it. Im not saying this is the case for everybody. Online Poker can be very beneficial for people, especially the older one is. However from personal experience, and posts on this forum, it really seems to me that alot of the online poker world, which most of them are under the age of 30, are missing out on alot of things. This age is supposed to be the prime of ones life and people are wasting it in an attempt to make a quick buck. This is not intended to be an assualt on anyone. I just hope that players will really look at online poker and what it does to their lives and see if its really worth it.
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PardoG
(United States)
385
Posts.
Joined
04-22-2005.
12-20-2006 2:08 PM
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Okay by the way, my FAV part about 90% of the posts on this site is that ALMOST EVERY PLAYER SEEMS TO BE "Winning money, investing, blowing money with their crew blah blah blah" EVERYONE IS A WINNING PLAYER?! EVERYONE MAKES MONEY!!!!???No one on this site is in that percentage of delusional college students who make one big score and think they can do this and want to do this for a living, give me a break.....I know because I was there....I thought I could go pro after I won 10k in a month on tourneys my senior year of college.......but I guess I am in the only one, everyone else seems to be able to laugh at hodge's observations because they are scoring every week and "laughing at the haters".....not to mention rationalizing with themselves in every way possible how their life of playing a game in a bubble for hours upon hours everyday is glorified.....i mean hahaha you have got to be kidding me
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I think Hodge is actually Bill Frist.
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aj_law
(United States)
1,947
Posts.
Joined
08-09-2006.
12-20-2006 3:01 PM
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I guess you have some points but they are huge generalizations. Not all players are hurting themselves in the ways described. OKay, so I left college(will prob go back someday), but I have invested nearly 150K in retirement/mutual funds and now have the money to start my own business, which will get done as soon as the PCA and tunica are done. Is there anything wrong with that? Going to college is necessary for the vast majority of society, but not everyone and there is nothing wrong with that. Am I setting myself up to be a failure by not going to college? I dont think so and I take offense when its suggested.
I think the problem is people often forget that there's a difference between "going to college and graduating" and "bettering yourself."
You can do the latter without the former.
Simply put, a higher education isn't for everyone. People live very fruitful and rewarding lives without having attended one college class or received a degree. However, they're doing something else to "better themselves." Whether it's learning a skill/trade or starting a business (as you are), they're doing something to (I hate to use the phrase again, but...) "better themselves;" something to fall back on, so to speak. As long as you're doing that, you're on the right path, regardless of what anyone else says.
I think what people often do (and it's no surprise that it's occurring on this thread considering the contents of the original post and title) is overgeneralize. People assume that because somebody doesn't go to school and get a degree, well, they must "be a loser dropout with a few bucks and a dream that thinks he can make it big in poker." And, while that might be the case, more or less, for a lot of young people that do play online, it doesn't apply to everybody. If it doesn't apply to you, then you shouldn't be offended by it.
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I am not "most" players. And I eschew gross generalizations.
Forty years ago, when I was Mr. Hodge05's age, we also had a war, but back then there was a draft...college was a wise alternative to Vietnam. (By the way, bankroll management is a useful skill in daily life, not just poker.)
A college degree is like having an admission ticket for the rest of your life. I can hardly remember my college experiences, but just last week I had reason to send out a resume. Carefully noted were my degrees.
I am one of the folks who created the running boom some 35 years ago. Every waking - and many sleeping - moment was filled with a passion for running. I trained 100 miles weekly, I raced marathons, I founded a running magazine, I owned a running store, I ended up a Nike executive. Following a long career in sport, I longed for a new (a)vocation for which I could feel the same all-consuming passion. Years went by. Could never find any venture that stirred me so. Then I found poker. What a revelation!!!! I am totally dedicated.
There is a thick line between addicted and dedicated. Folks like Sen. Frist and our clueless U.S. Congress don't seem to know the difference. Such posts as Hodge05's merely perpetuate the myth that the game is the problem or the internet is the problem. The problem is immaturity or a lack of self-discipline or insecurity. There is use and then there is abuse. This is true wherever we turn.
There is what I call DOG POOP LAW. My dog and I like to go the park so he can get some exercise. One day we show up to find a sign excluding canines. I investigate and find the new restriction arose because people weren't picking up after their animals. So, whose behavior is the real problem? Not my dog's. What we need is a sign for people who cannot behave courteously...exclude them from the park.
I refer to poker philosophy on a daily basis. You can learn a great deal from playing poker. In fact, now that I think about it, I have probably gotten more wisdom from poker than from 5 years of college.
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Cabo
(United States)
1,795
Posts.
Joined
02-15-2005.
12-20-2006 3:48 PM
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This post is like going onto the PETA site to see if anyone is up for torturing a few puppies to death.
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Adam
(Costa Rica)
11,653
Posts.
Joined
12-21-2004.
12-20-2006 4:00 PM
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I think this is a great post. I tell people all the time about how much I've learned about other areas of life through playing and being around poker. My experience with this game has been anything but hurtful.
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A-men.....but still get a degree!
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RevG
(Canada)
516
Posts.
Joined
09-20-2006.
12-20-2006 4:09 PM
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"Second off, you are bringing nothing to society."
Really? Ask Barry Greenstien if poker bring nothing to society. Or better yet ask the charities that he donates all of his tournament poker winnings to.
I am tired of hearing this comment, it's simply not true. Anyone thinking that working the "real world" is any more honest or brining betterment to society is nieve. There is not an honest business running in this world today. In fact if you work for any franchise or chain or brand name of anykind it is likely that you are contributing negatively to society in 1 way or another.
If you work for Taco Bell you are probably supporting slave labour in tomatoe fields
If you ever bought a diamond for your girlfriend you are probably supporting genocide
etc. etc. etc.
As for the school stuff and losing money, ya you are right. Most lose money and school is important no doubt. No surprise here.
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I finished college last May. I would never give up that experience for poker. I love poker but college has made me who I am and given me great friendships. But I think this is a stupid post. Everybody is different. For some poker is good, for some it is bad. For some college is good, for some it is bad. you people have no right or basis to be telling other people what is best for them.
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"My personal feeling on this post is that while it makes some good points regarding a specific subgroup of poker players (namely college age kids that are spending all their time playing poker, rather than going to class or developing socially), it's not as broad as the OP tries to claim." I disagree with this. This is not solely directed at college kids, although they may be the main audience. I have tutored or helped older people play this game. People that have already graduated or people that are in their 40's or 50's. It really seems to me that definitely people in their 40's and 50's are getting more benefits for it, but its not like its all positive. They miss time with their children, potentially hanging out with family/friends, doing errands etc. but id say for alot of people in their 40's and 50's they really do not play very frequently. most of them have jobs so alot just play it as a hobby which is fine and can be beneficial. But i still think the older people amongst us should still look at the game to see if its beneficial to them to play this game or if it hurts them as a person. People in their 20's and 30's however i see alot of the same problems that i mentioned above. Alot of players lose money they can not afford, and this time is still the prime of ones life. Meeting friends, going out, moving up in ones job, playing sports etc. Alot of people in this age group sacrifice these things for online poker. All i am saying in my post is that people should really just look at online poker and to see if its worth it for their lifes. It does not matter if you are 17 years old and in high school, a college student, or if you are retired.
"When I decide on a Wednesday night after working all day to play a few tournaments, am I "really hurting myself," as the OP suggests? Even if I lose money, am I really hurting myself? " I mentioned that playing poker can be fine. It depends on the extremity of which you play. Alot of people on this forum play alot of hours and some lose money they can not afford to lose. If you play on some night without much going on and you can afford to lose the money and you have fun with it than hell yeah. play some online poker. the problem i have is when people are sacrificing more important things for online poker or playing with money they can not lose. This happens more frequently than i think you believe.
"I highly doubt the OP or many others here can speak to how many online players are actually losing money they can't afford to lose---I have no delusion that it's not happening to anyone, but it's just as naive to think that more than a small percentage of the people playing online are ruining themselves financially" I am not saying they will ruin themselves. There is a difference between losing money they can not afford to lose and ruining themselves financially. Some do ruin themselves but that is an extremely small portion of online players. Alot though do lose money they can not afford.
"As far as talking about back up plans, I'm not even sure what the OP's talking about. How does he have any idea what "most online players" are doing with the rest of their time, or what their financial or educational situations are? Again, I feel he's just speaking to college age kids who are skipping classes to play online. The same goes for the part about growing as a person." This mainly does deal with college students yes. I specifically mentioned college for this. This is mainly talking about a small percentage of online players but alot of players do debate bout dropping out or dont do much school work which hurts themselves alot. Amongst the older crowd, its not as much of a problem. They either have degrees or have a job.
"I can understand how this relates to a number of people on this board, but to make this generalization about all online poker players is extremely naive. Not everyone who plays is neglecting their more important responsibilities to play poker; if you're one of the ones who is, and you don't think you're getting enough out of it to justify it, it's a good time to make some changes. " Extremely naive??? I guess we will agree to disagree on this one as i dont think either will budge. But most players who play this game on this forum are between the ages of 18-35 right with a greater volume based between 18-24? These are the prime ages of living. The ages where u meet your lifelong friends, your potential wife, playing sports, getting an education, etc etc etc. Many many people on this forum are forfeiting these things in the desire to make money when they are young. This is very very foolish imo. Im not saying every player is forfeiting these things but most are.
This is not a personal attack on anybody. I am truly trying to help people. I dont want it to be banned. I like poker. i just think people really need to take a closer look at what they are missing out on and see if its worth it.
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While i still think it may have been smart to stay in college mattg, you are in the extreme minority due to the fact you have the capability of winning 150k. You have put money away to make a business which is awesome. For great players like you, the benefits might easily outweigh the costs and that is awesome. However, alot of players desire to be like you, but do not have the skills or discipline to make it. They dont go to college and this messes up their future. Or they do go to college and they do not do very well. It takes up their time during which should be having the best times in their lives. for many it just isnt worth it, at least at the rate many do it.
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It is mostly bs? Please tell me which points are bs. Yes. Good things can come out of playing poker. I dont doubt that. I like poker. I play poker. For some, the benefits are greater than the costs but id say for most that is not the case.
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except that i dont think it should be banned and i play online poker...
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wsaul
(United States)
57
Posts.
Joined
01-29-2005.
12-20-2006 6:32 PM
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The best reason I can give to finish college is:
No one knows what the future holds. I'm not talking about the future of online poker or even poker in general. I'm referring to the fact none of us know where/what/when things will happen in our life which can greatly change the circumstances of our life.
For example, a person can position themselves to be extremely successful through investments, career opportunties, personal relationships, etc; but each of those (regardless of how secure they are at the time) are not guaranteed forever.
So, even if a college degree is of absolutely no use to a person given their current environment; it would be a wise decision to invest the time it takes to finish a degree. In the future, if things don't work out the way one plans due to poor planning or poor luck that degree could be extremely valuable in salvaging a very nice lifestyle. However, if you don't have that degree and things turn sour, a person might not have the opportunity to go back and finish up.
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I dont agree with the society thing some of the succesfull players have charity tournys for good causes and also donate to charity which is good for society obviously for some any gambling is a problem whether it be online or pulltabs at the local bar.
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