Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
Greetings everyone, longtime reader first-time poster.
Last Saturday, the 16th, Pokerroom.com ran their Christmas tournament, which was advertised to every player on the site as a $20+2 NL MTT with additional prizes of an HDTV for first and Pokerroom merchandise for 2nd-10th. Cruising around the site, I thought about playing in said tournament, and when I popped into the lobby for said tournament, it advertised a $19000 guarantee. As there were only about 200 players registered at the time, the overlay was rather large so I decided that I would definitely play.
I won. $3,829.81 and a $2000 HDTV. For my first big score in an MTT. That's not why I am here today, however.
Yesterday morning I received an email from Pokerroom informing me that there had been a mistake in the payouts. They claimed that I was only due $404.75 and would thus have $3,425.06 removed from my account immediately. And oh, by the way, they were letting me keep my $22 buyin and, if I finished in the top 10, whatever bonus prize I earned. They didn't even have the decency to look into matters closely enough to realize that I was not only in the top 10, but the winner.
For a 265 person tourney with no guarantee at the $20+2 level, first place pays $1590 on Pokerroom. I looked it up. That, however, is not the point here. Pokerroom has decided that they can arbitrarily enter people's accounts and remove large portions of their bankrolls on a whim. They have also decided that, not only can they renege on claims of a guarantee, but they can also advertise "extra" prizes but actually use people's tourney buyins to cover the costs of said "extras" whilst systematically reducing the cash payouts for everyone in their tournaments.
Pokerroom's support team has handled this in a laughably unprofessional manner, ignoring all arguments about the meaning of the word "extra" and attempting to liken the situation to a bank accidentally putting extra money in your account and claiming that the money never belonged to us in the first place. This tournament ran for 5 hours and 15 minutes. Those payout levels were posted the entire time, and pretty much everyone who made the final table has screenshots of their payouts. A large number of players in the tournament likely only played in said event because of the overlay, and a large number of previously happy players who cashed in this tournament are now receiving either merely their buyin back or a one-of-a-kind, super valuable PokerRoom travel kit in lieu of any cash prizes. Not as extra prizes as advertised, mind you, but in lieu of actual prizes.
Scams like this cannot be allowed to continue. There are always concerns about legitimacy and legality in the online poker world (generally voiced by all our friends and family who don't play), but the poker world would not have advanced to the point it has if every major poker website was allowed to treat its customers in this manner. I have removed all remaining cash from my Pokerroom account, and I urge all of you to strongly consider how confident you are in the security of your accounts before doing business with Pokerroom.com ever again. I hope that you will all spread knowledge of this incident throughout the online poker community in the hopes that awareness leads to a positive resolution for all online poker players.
Thank you for your time.
Zander
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To me it comes across as an ignorant letter on their part. I loved PokerRoom for its tourneys and was my main one for 2 years but the customer service was horrible and I kept feeling like I was getting ripped off. and im not even talking about the time someone called my all preflop pocket aces at a $54 tourney with 10 4 off and won!
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LOL at the poker room response. What a condescending jerk that guy is. I'm glad everybody got their money back. Welll everybody but Poker Room that is, because they've lost tens of thousands in rake.
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i registered just to reply to this message...i wasripped off bythis site too. i am a US player & withdrew my funds right around the time they cut off us players..needless to say i never received my $100. i called & they supposedly cut another check but i havent seen that 1 either. i am giving up on the situation-only $100 but i see now that this wasnt an isolated incident. what a bunch of cons..
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Oskar, don't you think there would be less speculation and bandwagon jumping if this letter by you had been written ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sayyyyyyyyyyyyy
DECEMBER 19th!!!!?????
Your response to the community took too long, and that was a big mistake. In addition, the backlash your site received was warranted. The fact that you guys remained silent on this issue for so long undoubtedly justified every bit of speculation there was. That said, there will now be some deserved backlash against your site for seeming to do the right thing ony because there was a public outcry.
That said, thank you for doing the right thing.
To avoid situations like this in the future, make better decisions, and when your site screws up, which all sites do...make it right in a timely fashion, and own the mistake.
Your site could start by welcoming back it's US customer base, and creating an environment where customers feel safe having their money on your site. Until you do that, your site will be second-rate, at best.
However, that said, the potential is there to undo all of the damage to your site's reputation, simply by operating the way you should, for an extended period of time. Time heals all wounds.
I challenge your site to live up to this, and the potential is there.
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Well, the important thing is that everyone got paid, but I think the apology is pretty half-hearted. Only when the entire online community was holding a gun to their head did they finally pay up, and only then because paying was going to be cheaper than not paying. There doesn't seem to be any desire to actually make this right, only to begrudgingly pay people off in an attempt to not lose any more business.
They paint themselves as the victims in all of this, and basically accuse the players of being a bunch of bullies who should consider themselves lucky to even grace their tables. Even if that's what they were thinking behind closed doors, you can't let that come through in your apology. You gotta suck it up, put your gameface on, and atleast fake a heartfelt apology. The way it came accross is, "Fine. We'll pay you. We're sick of your whining so just take it."
I feel sorry for the decision makers at pokerroom because they clearly have no concept of reality. Oskar, you need to fire your whole public relations team and find someone who is smart enough to come out and atleast pretend to be sorry. From now on, find a smart PR guy and let him do the talking for you. Thanks for "doing the right thing"???? I think.
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"Personally speaking, however, I must say that I'm a little disappointed to see so many being eager to jump on the bandwagon of hate, without first investigating the facts or background of the situation."
Come on dude, no online poker player wants to hear about a poker site ripping people off and usually the first thing that happens when someone makes a "ripped-off" post is they get flamed badly. We had facts/information (you didn't feel the need to respond at all). A respect member of the poker community said you were ripping him off and wanted satisfaction - none seemed to be forthcoming and he did what was necessary to get what he earned. Any reasonable company would have fixed THEIR problem (your software and your guarantee) immediately. And the tone of your letter/response clearly shows you are only reluctantly upholding your promise, not cheerfully doing so. Your goal here is to repair the damage and get it behind you...I think you have failed for the most part.
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Why does this Oskar guy deserve our money or patronage?
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