Poker Discussion Post

uhm, you got < 3 bbs and a pocket pair in an un-opened pot on the button... shove like anything there...

Standard as short stack with less than 3 bbs.  If there was a shorter stack than you with the blinds coming up on them, you could fold.  Otherwise, bl.

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......standard

Thanks for the advice  it just seems like  i have a higher probability to get in the money if i fold  with such a vulnerable holding b/c   A)     two players could tangle  if they both pick up a hand    and B)  i could pick up a hand that is more likely  not a coin flip hand     plus my push is  highly likely to get called my bb  who  knows he has a chance to place by taking me out       just my thoughts on it       


  

Flex Wheeler:

Thanks for the advice  it just seems like  i have a higher probability to get in the money if i fold  with such a vulnerable holding b/c   A)     two players could tangle  if they both pick up a hand    and B)  i could pick up a hand that is more likely  not a coin flip hand     plus my push is  highly likely to get called my bb  who  knows he has a chance to place by taking me out       just my thoughts on it        

This is a standard push with any PP.  It is nearly never correct to fold a pocket pair from the button in an unopened pot.

Assuming this is a 27-man SNG, and this is the bubble, this is not an "any two from the button just to stay alive" spot.  You can push approximately:

18.6%, 22+ A7s+ A5s-A3s ATo+ K9s+ KJo+ Q9s+ QJo J9s+ T9s 98s

Maybe more if the BB might fold.  Many people in the BB's spot will make incorrect folds because you can dent their stack considerably.  If the BB is that type of player, you can shove even more hands.

What I'd be most concerned about is that you have a 2.6 BB stack in the first place.  That fact, plus one answer that you gave in response to another poster tells me that you are likely not shoving often enough leading up to this hand.

As far as laying back and hoping the others tangle, just remember that 5th isn't the only money finish.  A push helps you take a look at the 1-4 spots.

Be fast, but be first.

Hope that helps!

I fkn stink and I know to shove that.

Thanks for Replying  Very Helpful      Would you shove in this spot?       I used to fall victim to not tangling with the aggres chip leader till after the money  but I have  taken more risks and now play for first  but that leads to bubbling or  finishing real high  in the money which seems to be better profit in the long run? would you agree?      I often find that a chip leader will raise any 2  and keep doubling up the lowstacks  while i fold a marginal hand that would have won    and then eventually i become low stack and run out of options  is this the standard experience?     Thanks Again

PokerStars Game #18860149021: Tournament #95970498, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2008/07/16 - 09:30:34 (ET)
Table '95970498 3' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: ashmadden (2920 in chips)
Seat 3: CSI1954 (1315 in chips)
Seat 4: pokhub (7330 in chips)
Seat 5: Frank87p (1070 in chips)
Seat 6: vallodruid60 (9055 in chips)
Seat 7: Flex Wheeler (2585 in chips)
Seat 8: aussiewhitey (16225 in chips)
ashmadden: posts the ante 25
CSI1954: posts the ante 25
pokhub: posts the ante 25
Frank87p: posts the ante 25
vallodruid60: posts the ante 25
Flex Wheeler: posts the ante 25
aussiewhitey: posts the ante 25
Frank87p: posts small blind 200
vallodruid60: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Flex Wheeler [7h As]
Flex Wheeler: folds
aussiewhitey: folds
ashmadden: folds
CSI1954: folds
pokhub: folds
Frank87p: raises 645 to 1045 and is all-in
vallodruid60: calls 645
*** FLOP *** [Js 2c 8d]
*** TURN *** [Js 2c 8d] [Ad]
*** RIVER *** [Js 2c 8d Ad] [6c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Frank87p: shows [6s 4s] (a pair of Sixes)
vallodruid60: shows [7d 9s] (high card Ace)
Frank87p collected 2265 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2265 | Rake 0
Board [Js 2c 8d Ad 6c]
Seat 2: ashmadden folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: CSI1954 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: pokhub (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Frank87p (small blind) showed [6s 4s] and won (2265) with a pair of Sixes
Seat 6: vallodruid60 (big blind) showed [7d 9s] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 7: Flex Wheeler folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: aussiewhitey folded before Flop (didn't bet)

flex- in your second hand i would shove A8s or ATo, but not A7o.