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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
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I've been approached several times about how to manage a bankroll, and when to cash out. I'm going to address this question very heavily in this post.
The following guidelines will assure with a high confidence level that you never go broke if you are +ROI in the games you are playing, and you exercise good game selection.
Proper Bankroll Management Minimums:
$65 - $1.10 STTs
$90 - $1.10 18-man
$130 - $1.10 45-man, $2.20 STTs
$210 - $5.25 HU
$215 - $3.30 STTs
$270 - $6.25 HU
$357 - $5.50 STTs
$416 - $3.25 45-man
$420 - $10.50 HU
$422 - $6.50 STTs
$440 - $2.20 MTTs, $2.20 180-man
$495 - $3.30 90-man
$585 - $6.50 18-man
$715 - $11 STTs
$780 - $12 STTs
$820 - $21 HU
$832 - $6.50 45-man
$880 - $4.40 MTT, $4.40 180-man
$990 - $11 18-man
$1040 - $16 STTs
$1080 - $12 18-man
$1100 - $5.50 MTTs
$1300 - $6.50 MTTs, $12 27-man, $20 STTs
$1430 - $22 STTs
$1440 - $16 18-man
$1530 - $12 45-man
$1560 - $24 STTs
$1650 - $11 90-man
$1755 - $27 STTs
$1760 - $8.80 MTTs
$1980 - $22 18-man
$2100 - $52.50 HU
$2145 - $33 STTs
$2160 - $24 18-man
$2340 - $36 SNGs
$2400 - $11 MTTs
$2430 - $27 18-man
$2470 - $38 STTs
$2600 - $12 MTTs, $12 180-man
$2970 - $33 18-man
$3300 - $16.50 MTTs
$3320 - $26 45-man
$3420 - $38 18-man
$3450 - $27 45-man
$3570 - $55 STTs
$3900 - $60 STTs, $26 90-man
$4200 - $22 MTTs, $22 180-man
$4250 - $105 HU
$4860 - $38 45-man
$4875 - $75 STTs
$4950 - $55 18-man
$5400 - $60 18-man, $27 MTTs
$6600 - $33 MTTs
$7660 - $60 45-man
$7800 - $39 MTTs
$8250 - $55 90-man
$8500 - $210 HU
$11000 - $55 MTTs
$12000 - $60 MTTs
$15000 - $75 MTTs
$20800 - $109 MTTs
$43000 - $215 MTTs
$106000-$530 MTTs
Clarifications:
- For Double or Nothing SNGs, use the HU guidelines.
- For MTTs with less than 150 players, use the 90-man guidelines.
- If your favorite game is not found on here, simply multiply the buyin by 40 for HU, 50 for FTP's Matrix SNGs, 65 for STTs, 90 for 18-20 man, 108 for 27-man, 128 for 45-man, 150 for 90-man, or 200 for 180-man or MTTs and add it to the list!
- For satellites, to determine how many buyins you need, use the formula (2000/x), where x is the % of the field that gets paid. For example, if a satellite tournament pays 20% of the field, then (2000/20) = 100, so you need 100 buyins.
- I will be crossposting this on my blog here so if you ever want to reference this, that's the easiest place to find it!
- These buyin recommendations are very conservative and are intended to ensure that you make consistant money while your risk of ruin is extremely minimal. It is made for professional players who cannot afford to replenish their bankroll. Recreational players may feel free to cut these recommendations in half.
- Satellites for must-play tournaments should only be played if you have enough in your bankroll for the target tournament, and you have an edge in that target event. There is an exception to this rule, below.
- I didn't include any game with higher than a 10% rake, because I feel that those games are ripoffs.
- If you are feeling good, don't play too far away from your highest allowable game. For instance, if your bankroll allows you to play $22 SNGs and you are playing $11 SNGs, you are not allowing yourself to make enough money.
- If things have been rough lately, or you have lost confidence, there's no need to play at your highest allowable level. Get back that winning feeling by dropping down, and scoring some wins. You'll still be working towards moving up.
Cashout strategy:
Pay yourself according to volume, not results.
Remove the following from your bankroll every time you play these games:
HU: 2% of your buyin
STTs: 3% of your buyin
18-man: 4% of your buyin
45-man: 5% of your buyin
90-man: 6% of your buyin
180-man/MTT: 8% of your buyin
Also remove all Rakeback/Bonuses earned
When your total cashouts reach the site's minimum cashout requirements, then cash out as soon as you can.
Clarifications:
- If you are a high buyin player, you may be playing a SNG where you are only expected to attain a very small ROI. In that case, divide your expected long-term ROI by 2 and cash out that much per game. For instance, if you are a $320 STT player who expects to make 2% ROI, cash out 1% ($3.30) per game played. That sounds small, but most of your income is coming from rakeback/bonuses anyway.
- For hyper/superturbo SNGs, only remove 1.5% per game.
Taking shots (optional):
Then allow yourself 1/4 of your cashout money for entertainment. Your shot can be your entertainment. For instance, if you are a $5 player who would like to take a shot at a $50 game, then save up $200 in cashouts, and then withdraw $150. use the other $50 for your game. Obviously this is not optimal, but some people will explode their bankrolls at some point if they never get a chance to chase their dreams!
Just one rule:
- If you take a shot and win, cash out at least 75% of your winnings RIGHT AWAY. Don't try to use the shot to pad your bankroll. The bankroll management plan is already designed to keep you where you are going to make the most money per hour.
When used together, over time, the Bankroll Management and Cashout Strategy will:
- Keep you playing at or near your optimal level. You won't have to decide what games to play. The system will do it for you.
- Ensure that you are beating the games at a high enough ROI to continue to play them. For instance if you maintain a 3% ROI at the $27 18-mans, although you are winning, you will be cashing out too much money (4%) to stay at that level, and the system will drop you back to the $16 level, where you will make more money per game.
- Keep you from facing high % fluctuations in your bankroll so your mindset is good.
- Have you making frequent cashouts no matter what your results are. This stops the endless cycle that some people have of moving up and moving down, but never cashing out!
- Allow you to plan. Your income will be easily predicatable. For instance, if you are going to play 100 $27 18-mans today, you know you will cash out exactly $108, no matter how you do.
- Encourage you to increase your volume.
- Give you the opportunity to take an occasional shot at a bigger event and chase your dreams.
I really hope this helps someone.
Jen
*edit - Please give your feedback. If you have any suggestions on how I can make this better, please let me know. My goal is to edit this to perfection, and update this to include whatever new popular games may come up.
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How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p
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 clubkiller: | |
How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p
For any of the tourneys/SNGs it wouldn't change, for cash games multi-tabling would matter. I don't currently play cash but IIRC if you needed 25 BIs to play 1/2 6-max NL at a full buy-in (which is $200?), then to play one table you'd need $5000, two tables $10000, etc.
Hopefully Jen will confirm my thinking here.
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By the way, a number of people have asked me to post my spreadsheet, thing is I have no idea how to go about it. Any help for an interwebs noob like me out there? I'm guessing I'll need to use some sort of document holding site and then posting a link to it, if so any suggestions?
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| Rycky4Golf: | |
| clubkiller: | |
How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p
For any of the tourneys/SNGs it wouldn't change, for cash games multi-tabling would matter. I don't currently play cash but IIRC if you needed 25 BIs to play 1/2 6-max NL at a full buy-in (which is $200?), then to play one table you'd need $5000, two tables $10000, etc. Hopefully Jen will confirm my thinking here.
that would definetly seem like a lot. In this case you would need $27,000 to 24 table $25 nl,hmm.
Fwiw, I might be a little underrolled if this were the case lol;p
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| poisoneye1986: | |
jen, say you are a sng and mtt player. for mtts you have the $7800 roll to play $39 mtts does this mean you should also be playing $109 stts?
It means you are rolled to do so. Whether you do or not depends on if you feel you are profitable in them. Never play any game where you don't feel you have an edge.
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| clubkiller: | |
How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p
The number of tables you play will not matter if you are using this program. It works equally well for 1 or 50-tablers. The only trick is that you have to have the minimum bankroll to buy in.
Example: You want to multitable $6.50 SNGs ($422 bankroll required). You would have to have $422 in your account at the time that you register for the last one.
Clarification: This system forces you to cash out 3% for STTs and 4% for 18-mans. Therefore, long-term, you'll need to maintain 3-4% just to stay at your current stakes. If you don't acheive that, you'll need to move down at some point (but that is okay because you'll make more money at the next lowest level). If you acheive better than that, you'll have the opportunity to move up somewhat quickly if you are acheiving 10-15% ROI. You'll have the chance to move up after a very large sample size at 5-6% ROI. This keeps you playing where you make the most money, allows you to ride hot streaks (when you are playing your best) and forces you to move down when you aren't winning (and likely not playing your best).
Therefore, for cash, you would need 68 total buyins to 24-table NLH cash, because you would have 45 buyins remaining in your roll at the time you bought into the last game. If I were in your shoes, I'd use 75-80 buyins instead.
From my post on how to apply this to cash games:
For the bankroll management part:
- For limit games, you need 550 big bets
- For no-limit games, you need 45 buyins.
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meierp
(United States)
112
Posts.
Joined
09-27-2007.
12-16-2008 11:16 PM
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In reply to
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great post some good food for thought about the cashing out aspect of this
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just curious on your reasoning behind 200 buy ins for bigger MTT's....i think i am very conservative, and I use 100 buy ins. I do sprinkle in a lot of guaranteed money makers to lower variance (ie $26's on FTP), but certainly think an $11,000 for $50 tourneys is way too high....please explain why you disagree :o)
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| shane3769: | |
just curious on your reasoning behind 200 buy ins for bigger MTT's....i think i am very conservative, and I use 100 buy ins. I do sprinkle in a lot of guaranteed money makers to lower variance (ie $26's on FTP), but certainly think an $11,000 for $50 tourneys is way too high....please explain why you disagree :o)
The system is designed to ensure that the % of your bankroll at risk is always small. It's a very conservative system by design. I see nothing wrong with using 100 buyins for MTTs so long as you understand that there is some risk of ruin. The system is designed to be able to play forever with virtually no chance of going broke.
Fox explains how 100 buyins is a "protected" bankroll in his classic article, whereas he recommended 200 buyins for a pro.
Basic Bankroll Management, by Fox
Cliff notes: I'm a bankroll nit.
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| Jennifear: | |
| clubkiller: | |
How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p
The number of tables you play will not matter if you are using this program. It works equally well for 1 or 50-tablers. The only trick is that you have to have the minimum bankroll to buy in. Example: You want to multitable $6.50 SNGs ($422 bankroll required). You would have to have $422 in your account at the time that you register for the last one. Clarification: This system forces you to cash out 3% for STTs and 4% for 18-mans. Therefore, long-term, you'll need to maintain 3-4% just to stay at your current stakes. If you don't acheive that, you'll need to move down at some point (but that is okay because you'll make more money at the next lowest level). If you acheive better than that, you'll have the opportunity to move up somewhat quickly if you are acheiving 10-15% ROI. You'll have the chance to move up after a very large sample size at 5-6% ROI. This keeps you playing where you make the most money, allows you to ride hot streaks (when you are playing your best) and forces you to move down when you aren't winning (and likely not playing your best). Therefore, for cash, you would need 68 total buyins to 24-table NLH cash, because you would have 45 buyins remaining in your roll at the time you bought into the last game. If I were in your shoes, I'd use 75-80 buyins instead. From my post on how to apply this to cash games: For the bankroll management part:
- For limit games, you need 550 big bets
- For no-limit games, you need 45 buyins.
Ty Jenn this is excactly what I was looking for.
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