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Statement about AP Situation - 10-16-2007
Adam (Costa Rica) 11,650 Posts. Joined 12-21-2004.
10-16-2007 12:15 AM

P5ers,

The past 72 hours have been really difficult for us here at P5s as things have gotten out of hand quickly in regards to the AP super-user situation.  We have never faced a situation quite like this before; one of our trusted partners has been accused of serious security vulnerabilities, and the accusations appear to have merit.  In fact, when this situation first came to light, our inclination was to dismiss it as another “online poker is rigged” post.  However, after careful examination of all the facts presented, it’s just not possible for us to do that anymore. 

Thereby, we have decided to indefinitely suspend any promotion of Absolute Poker, including site links, banners, and inclusion of future tournaments in the rankings.  Please understand that this is not a conviction on our part; it's simply an acknowledgement that significant and meaningful questions have arisen about the security of their site, and until those questions can be resolved to our satisfaction, we don't feel comfortable encouraging our users to play there.

We're in the process of removing links and promotional materials--most of them are down already.  Please be patient while we get this all set.

Looking ahead, we intend to work with Absolute Poker as closely as possible to get all the facts and decipher them from "Internet folk lore."  In fact, we've been on several phone calls today with AP trying to find out what they know about this situation and how they’re dealing with it. We’ll continue to press them to try and find out more.  They’ve also invited us to have full access to their office and systems, and we’re hoping to be able to use that access to find out more about what went wrong.  Anything and everything we discover will be reported here on the site, and hopefully it will shed more light on the situation.

In closing, I'd like to say that we all want what you want---for online poker games to be safe, fair, and trustworthy.  We hope that our decision helps us all in realizing that goal.

Best,

--Adam

 
 
 

xSneakyKatx (United States) 163 Posts. Joined 08-25-2005.
10-16-2007 8:14 AM - In reply to

No way this is any good w/o same for UB. Same group,same penalty.

ragbag (United States) 63 Posts. Joined 04-05-2006.
10-16-2007 8:49 AM - In reply to

Has the KGC been cleared now? If not this could continue spiralling.. AP..UB..KGC.. for the sake of a fair investigation I think this is the correct play to ISOLATE for now. 

caffeineaddict (United States) 22 Posts. Joined 08-26-2005.
10-16-2007 8:51 AM - In reply to

First WTG P5's on making the correct desicion on this situation but I have to agree on the UB issue but for a different reason.
UB/AP maybe be solely owned but have seperate software BUT they do share the ability to transfer funds between rooms.
So let's say you take down your AP ad's but leave up your UB one's ok.
Well Joe Poker brand new to the game stumble across's this site from a search engine/a friend/seeing your logo on tv etc. etc.
Well they see what a finely run site this is here how reputable this site is but does not know about the AP situation.
So looking to get into poker for the first time they click on a UB ad on your site download the softawre and deposit.
No problems there but the problem arises when they log into the UB software and see ads for UB's sister site AP and see they can transfer funds to AP directly from UB's cashier screen.
They think Perfect I can have money at the both sites now.
So now we as a site are still sending players to AP through UB and you are still getting the revenue from said transaction.
Again the liekly hood of this is slim but even if 1 player goes this route isn't that counterproductive to taking down the AP ad's here to begin with?
I honestly feel the UB ad's should come down as wel.

boozhwaa (United States) 1,091 Posts. Joined 01-22-2005.
10-16-2007 8:52 AM - In reply to

The Absolute Poker software has been compromised. As far as we know, UB's has not. Also, we don't know who at Absolute is responsible or knows about it, so we can't know if there's any link to UB. Without a link there's no reason to take any action against UB.

threebanger (United States) 5,089 Posts. Joined 09-18-2007.
10-16-2007 9:09 AM - In reply to

If AP owns UB...same standard should apply.

Someone should also be hot on the trail of Hellmuth and Annie Duke for official statements on this subject.

leedsrounder (United Kingdom) 10 Posts. Joined 08-15-2006.
10-16-2007 9:46 AM - In reply to

You can always rely on P5's
nice job sir


EddieO (United States) 1,635 Posts. Joined 05-30-2007.
10-16-2007 9:50 AM - In reply to

I play on neither site....and thank you for taking off all AP banners....but I think the right step would be to take off all UB ads as well.  I understand they are different companies, but it is their general attitude to the problem that should result in the suspension of UB ads as well.  There is one person that is in charge of those 2 companies....and I can guarantee this problem has reached the upper management of the company....so if they have decided to sweep this problem under the rug....then why would you have confidence in them to run UB in a professional, safe and fair manner?  Management has shown that they do not have the ability to run a site in a professional manner and as a statement to the industry P5s should stand up and forego their advertising dollars to make a statement.

If Nasdaq and NYSE were owned by the same company...and the Nasdaq had a scandal like this would you simply take all NASDAQ ads off of your site but leave NYSE ads insisting that they have no risk of the same problem....NO.  There is probably one board and one CEO that has control of these companies....If there is a flaw with absolute....and they could allow a hh to be sent out with such flagrant cheating then how can you morally allow their sister company...which provides profits to THE SAME OWNERS.....to still advertise on your site.  Does P5s feel like they are doing the right thing by accepting money in order to provide UB with new customers....because that is what is happening.

It is not easy, but it would be the right decision.  Stand up and make the right call here you will benefit 10 fold by doing right by the people you are here for..the community.

When you get your next check from UB....and you deposit it into the P5s bank account think about whether you feel right about earning that money.  New online players have been recruited to play at UB...BY POCKET FIVES....and now they are subject to the unsafe and unfair gaming that we all have exposed.  AND I CAN GUARANTEE THAT ANY PLAYER OPENING A NEW ACCOUNT AT UB HAS NO CLUE OF WHAT IS GOING ON CURRENTLY.  THEY WOULD BE BLIND TO THE RISKS THEY ARE ENTERING.....AND HOPEFULLY THEY WOULD NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE TRANSFER TO AP FEATURE.  YOU'RE HALF WAY THERE P5S....STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND MAKE A STAND!

THE SAME OWNERS PROFIT FROM UB THAT PROFIT FROM ABSOLUTE....SO WHY WOULD YOU ACCEPT ADVERTISING DOLLARS TO RECRUIT NEW PLAYERS FOR OWNERS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVEN UNTRUSTWORTHY? 

nudepkr 146 Posts. Joined 08-12-2006.
10-16-2007 10:11 AM - In reply to

<wp adam, nat and the rest of this very intelligent community>

ty

JicJacJohnsN (United States) 479 Posts. Joined 08-14-2007.
10-16-2007 10:12 AM - In reply to

Great Job guys....Im a PP5er (Proud Pocket Fiver)

Prophite (United States) 529 Posts. Joined 11-10-2006.
10-16-2007 10:21 AM - In reply to

wow... GG

Desslock (Canada) 930 Posts. Joined 05-02-2006.
10-16-2007 10:45 AM - In reply to

Is that actually true?   Absolute is run by Indians on a Canadian reserve - Ultimate Bet certainly isn't in Canada and has been run for a lot longer than Absolute.   Are you sure they just don't have a commercial relationship?

vil1ain (United Kingdom) 345 Posts. Joined 03-05-2007.
10-16-2007 10:45 AM - In reply to

nice job P5's but I also think the UB situation needs looking into aswell.

More Cowbell (United States) 330 Posts. Joined 04-28-2005.
10-16-2007 10:55 AM - In reply to

Going to get quite interesting when the mainstream media catches wind of all this.

dthimesch (United States) 284 Posts. Joined 11-24-2005.
10-16-2007 11:26 AM - In reply to

Please bring Nat with you to their office's and let him dig in....











......Nat, while your in snooping.... WINK WINK

yeagermyster (United States) 932 Posts. Joined 05-21-2006.
10-16-2007 11:28 AM - In reply to

Great decision. I have no doubt it was very tough to remove a very important income stream from the site but it shows the integrity of P5's. I am very happy to be a member here. 
 
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