Poker Discussion
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P5ers,
The past 72 hours have been really difficult for us here at P5s as things have gotten out of hand quickly in regards to the AP super-user situation. We have never faced a situation quite like this before; one of our trusted partners has been accused of serious security vulnerabilities, and the accusations appear to have merit. In fact, when this situation first came to light, our inclination was to dismiss it as another “online poker is rigged” post. However, after careful examination of all the facts presented, it’s just not possible for us to do that anymore.
Thereby, we have decided to indefinitely suspend any promotion of Absolute Poker, including site links, banners, and inclusion of future tournaments in the rankings. Please understand that this is not a conviction on our part; it's simply an acknowledgement that significant and meaningful questions have arisen about the security of their site, and until those questions can be resolved to our satisfaction, we don't feel comfortable encouraging our users to play there.
We're in the process of removing links and promotional materials--most of them are down already. Please be patient while we get this all set.
Looking ahead, we intend to work with Absolute Poker as closely as possible to get all the facts and decipher them from "Internet folk lore." In fact, we've been on several phone calls today with AP trying to find out what they know about this situation and how they’re dealing with it. We’ll continue to press them to try and find out more. They’ve also invited us to have full access to their office and systems, and we’re hoping to be able to use that access to find out more about what went wrong. Anything and everything we discover will be reported here on the site, and hopefully it will shed more light on the situation.
In closing, I'd like to say that we all want what you want---for online poker games to be safe, fair, and trustworthy. We hope that our decision helps us all in realizing that goal.
Best,
--Adam
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well it depends on how the relationship works.
the fact that one company 'owns' another does not necessarily mean they are run from the same place by the same people. In the example you give above, if there are seperate companies set up operating out of separate locations that happened to be owned by the same parent, then i see no reason to ban mountain dew adds based on anothers companies behaviour. many company relationships are so complicated these days with mega corps owning pieces of everything that you open a real can of worms.
i don't know very much about the ap/ub relationship apart from ap owns ub now .. can someone shed some light on how this relationship works? Do the same people physically work for both? Is their one set of offices or two for ap and ub?
The way I see it there are two issues:
Software Security - obviously ap has fucked up, but ub has always had the best software in the game, developed separately from ap's software, and there has never been any suggestion, hint or evidence of anything dodgy going on with play at their site.
Company Trust - it looks as though ap has told us all a load of shit with that email they sent out. i don't trust them as far as I can throw them, and I'm sure many people feel the same. I guess the issue that are these people at AP that have fucked up over this issue the same actual people that run UB? If so, then i suspect UB will have a problem too. If it's different people, working for a different company then probably no big issue.
Can KK or someone else in the know give us some more info on the UB/AP relationship and how this might affect UB?
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interesting point, but an important issue is not only security while playing, its security of your funds. By having absolute/UB banners its encouraging people to deposit and play there.
Well if all the accusations prove to be true about AP (which seems almost 100% likely) than the company that owns AP/UB will suffer huge financial blows which may threaten the security of your deposit, and thus these UB banners also should be removed just on the chance of hurting members of this community. And that is even assuming that the relationship between the two companies is relatively mutually exclusive...
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LirvA
(United States)
533
Posts.
Joined
09-13-2007.
10-16-2007 4:51 AM
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In reply to
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If Absolute makes everything right to pocketfives' satisfaction, will p5's promote and recommend them again?
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that seems like a pretty weak reason to go removing a sites banners. taking these banners down is a very serious step, which adam and the team have obviously put a lot of thought into over this AP situation. they have come with what we all seem to think is the right decision based on a lot information out there in public, and also with info they have obviously gathered behind the scenes.
To flippantly say "might as well take UB"s banners down too cause they may have some financial issues in the future as some result of this" is a huge step on no information. Especially considering UB has nothing to do with the cheating, other than their company is owned by AP.
So at this stage, well done P5's on the AP situation, and (as I said above) I would like to know more about the AP/UB relationship and how this may affect UB, if at all.
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| I think its obvious that you guys should send nat to check their office and systems | |
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What a fantastic response to the members superb investigations into ap obv cheating!
congrats on the firm and just stance which adam and the P5 admin team have taken!!!
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Royal
(United States)
35
Posts.
Joined
06-16-2006.
10-16-2007 5:43 AM
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In reply to
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I am sure this was a tough decision to make but nevertheless the right one. Well done.
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now how am I gonna increase my plb
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gank
(United States)
2,680
Posts.
Joined
02-18-2005.
10-16-2007 6:40 AM
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In reply to
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Well, I hate to be the one to bring this up, and I appreciate you guys taking the time to figure it out and make the decision to remove Absolute Poker from this site, however, the fact remains that Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet ARE OWNED BY THE SAME PEOPLE.
I understand the the interfaces, RNG, etc are different and independent from one another, but their management is the same. The same management that tried to sweep this mess under the rug will still be running UB, just under a different brand name.
I think it should strongly be considered that UB be removed from this site and rankings as well.
My question is, what is the difference between AP and UB from a fundamental business level, in that one will be shunned and one will be embraced?
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"They’ve also invited us to have full access to their office and systems, and we’re hoping to be able to use that access to get our hands on super accounts 1-362."
wp adam, nat and the rest of this very intelligent community
edit: gank pwns
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Have AP said anything to you admins here on P5:s? I would love to hear a explanation for all this.
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CCx
(United States)
18
Posts.
Joined
10-16-2005.
10-16-2007 7:42 AM
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In reply to
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If a trip to the office or check of systems is initiated, it would be interesting to find out who/where the SUPERCARM55 and REYMNALDO accounts are registered to, and what the status of their accounts is with respect to cashing out the many many thousands of dollars dumped to them by the cheating user accounts.
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Thank you and well-played.
They’ve also invited us to have full access to their office and systems, and we’re hoping to be able to use that access to find out more about what went wrong.
Bring Nat with you!
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^^^ That's actually an excellent idea. He seems to be quite knowledgeable about coding, etc.. and can spot things quickly, and if he doesn't know... he knows who does! LOL
Gets my vote. 
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