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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
As some of you know, I have been teaching Low-Limit SNG classes recently, with tremendous success, and improved results for the vast majority of my students. After my 50th lesson, I have noticed I am correcting the same leaks for very many of my students.
I want to share with you the most common mistakes I am seeing, and the best fixes for each:
- Playing at a level above their head on a regular basis.
Many students, who are proven winners at the $5.00 level are playing mostly $10 SNGs, for a losing ROI. I suspect this is because they feel they can dominate the lower level, and at one time, had a measure of success, or a hot run at the level they are losing on.
Keep good records, and take an honest look at your ROI. If the level you are beating is running at 15% or less ROI, in most cases you have no business moving up. Let's say your ROI is 12% in $5.50 SNGs (.66 profit/SNG), you are going to need a 6% ROI in the $11 SNGs to acheive the same profit. It isn't going to happen. Keep results over a long period of time, and honestly examine them. It is our nature as poker players to challenge ourselves. Be sure not to take this to the extreme.
- Playing too many tables at once.
From my experience, Multi-tabling causes about an 8% drop in ROI (of course this varies, depending on the competency level of the player trying it.)
Therefore, I recommend no less than a 16% ROI at the current level you are playing, in order to try multitabling.
Example: Mark Multitabler has a 5% ROI (avg $.50 profit) in the $10 SNGs, but wants to play four at once. Under the best circumstances, Mark's ROI will be slightly negative. (appx $1.20 loss per session)
This usually occurs due to boredom. If you are paying attention to the table you are on, even when not in the hand, trying to pick up betting patterns, you will not be bored.
- Playing poor hands out of position.
Many players are playing any ace, suited connectors, or any two paint cards, in any position. Position is one of the keys in poker, and the earlier you enter the pot, the stronger hand you must have to realize a profit playing the hand. Nine handed, under the gun, this means playing AQ or better, if unpaired, and hands like any ace, and paint cards should only be played in position, and much of the time, only if the pot is unopened.
- Calling raises with inadequate values preflop.
Many players are calling raises with hands such as KQ and AJ, and in many cases, much worse. Calling a raise should be seldom done. Most often the proper action is to reraise, or fold. Folding AQ, or a medium pair should be standard against most raises from early position, as you will often end up playing a guessing game.
- Not believing opponents might have a hand.
Many players are calling big bets with marginal hands, failing to realize the bettor may very well have a hand. Some players instantly put their opponent on a given hand and keep that thought in their head without an open mind that their initial read could be wrong. They see an opponent bluff once or twice, and then think they have nothing and are just trying to steal the pot. Be sure that you have a solid read before you make a marginal call.
- Failing to respect a check-raise.
Most low limit players do not have the wherewithal to attempt a check-raise bluff, and a check-raise is almost always consistant with a huge hand. Even if you have a very good hand, you need to be cautious about proceeding here. Folding is usually the best option.
- Bluffing loose opponents too frequently.
Many players at these levels call any bet with even a shread of a hand. If you are going to try a big bluff, ensure that you have some type of read that says you will likely succeed, or make a play at a pot that has been uncontested thus far.
- Failing to bet enough to chase draws out of the hand.
I'll see a player bet 100 into a 400 pot with top pair, or bet half the pot into a scary flop that could easily be damaged by a bad turn card. Many players at this level will chase very many hands, and you need to make them pay to outdraw you. If not, you are going to feel unlucky.
Most bets should have teeth. 2/3 of the pot is a standard bet in No Limit play.
- Failing to raise unopened pots preflop.
Too often I will see a player limp a hand such as KJo or A7o in late position in an unopened pot. This is a good way to get a good second-best hand, and get no read against the blinds, who could have anything!
My recommendations: Q7+ or J10 on the button, Q9+ in the cutoff, K9+ in the hijack seat, A8+ in the next seat, and A10+ in the next seat, all for a raise. Be fast, but be first.
- Calling/limping too much.
In no limit holdem, the proper play is most often raise or fold. Calling fails to give you the extra read you need, and the extra information you get from raising. The example I provide below is preflop, but this occurs after the flop as well.
example:
AQ in utg+2, 9 handed. This is a hand that should be played, but many don't wish to play it for a raise, due to the fact that there are several players left to act, and they don't want to face a better hand out of position.
Let's say you limp, and the button raises: The button could have KJ+, any ace, or any pair.
Let's say you raise and are reraised by the button: The button likely has 10-10+ or AQ+.
Let's say you raise and are called by the button: The button likely has 22-99 or KJ-AJ.
What you accomplished by raising is getting information. Essentially by raising, and watching their action, you have defined their hand, giving you a better read. It's hard enough to play this hand out of position WITHOUT having to guess your opponents holding. If you are limping more than 2x/SNG, you are liekly limping too much.
- Failing to play huge draws with extreme aggression.
One of the most common myths in poker is that pushing all in on the flop with a flush draw is a horrid play. The truth is, that it isn't, and it's merely a just a bad play. In the event that you have more than a flush draw, say a flush draw with an additional pair, openended straight draw, or a gutshot with overcards, it's time to make a huge play at the pot.
I see too many players checking these hands, hoping for a free turn card, with players left to to act.
The important concept here is that your draw becomes weak after the turn if you miss, and even a 60% draw turns to 30%. Then it's too easy for someone to bet you out of the pot, and no matter what the river card is, you cannot reap the benefits without paying too much. With these hands you want to see either a turn AND river, or just the flop, winning the pot right there, therefore it is often best to just shove!
What shoving does is guarantee that you get to see both the turn and the river, and it maximizes the chances your opponent will fold (fold equity), thus adding value to your draw.
- Failing to call underdog hands with proper pot odds.
A fold I often see in this level is from the big blind, where more than 1/3 of your stack is invested, and the hand held is weak.
Let me introduce the 30% rule:
If you are heads-up in a pot, and the amount it costs to call is less than 30% of what the total pot will be, it is almost always correct to call, regardless what you are holding.
- Failing to play to win, and just trying to make the money.
Most of my students coming into my classes have the idea that survival is the most important concept in a SNG, and they should never jeopardize their "tournament life", unless they are sure they are ahead! While surviving increases your ITM%, your ROI is most affected by the number of wins you attain!
In the lowest levels the majority of your opponents are thinking like that, and you should abuse them liberally!
Let me give you an example:
Q: You are in the small blind, holding two blank cards. You literally CANNOT win a showdown. Blinds are 100-200, and it's folded to you. When is it correct to raise to 600?
A: When your opponent is so tight he will fold 75%+ of the time.
Let's say your opponent folds everytime unless he has a pair, a good ace, or KQ-KJ...say 80% of the time.
In five trials, you will win 200 four times, and lose your raise once, for a total profit of 200, holding 00!
Recognize which opponents are tight, and situations where your opponents will often play tight, such as survival situations. These situations come up most often later in a SNG, and are the key to winning!
- Expecting opponents to play well.
Your opponents in a $5-10 SNG are a mix of recreational players with little clue, bad players, weak-tight players, and the occasional decent player. Your opponents will be making mistakes. It is your job to exploit these, or you will fall into the looooooooooooong list of people "who can't seem to beat donkeys".
Watch for mistakes your opponents are making, and counter appropriately. If they call too much, bet more when you have it, and bluff less. If they fold too much, bet more often, etc. They are screwing up left and right, DO NOT FORGET to adjust to this, or you will be left in the dust whining about your bad beat.
- Playing too tight early.
While playing tight early is a viable strategy in a higher limit SNG, it is simply a mistake in the lowest limit SNGs, where there are usually a few players just dying to lose their money early. Get first crack at these players' money. Play a wide range of hands in late position, hoping to hit a monster. You have huge implied odds when the blinds are small, and opponents who are all too willing to call off their stack with top pair! Play hands in position, cheap, hit a monster, and bet HARD hoping for a call. You'll get it more often than not.
For more information on low-limit SNG lessons, email me at goodtime46@aol.com, or visit my site at spaces.msn.com/jennypoker. Discounts will me made available to those who sign up for a site through a link at pocketfives.com.
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Your first priority is the size of your chipstack, so if you are strong, but vulnerable, you need to bet.
Often times there is no benefit to another player's elimination, and keeping him around four-handed is nearly as good when you have a lead. You can then further abuse players wishing to simply survive. Many players who I respect say they actually prefer keeping everyone alive with a very large lead.
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excellent post jennifear, great advice
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Edals
(United States)
1,605
Posts.
Joined
02-17-2006.
10-05-2006 1:44 AM
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Many players who I respect say they actually prefer keeping everyone alive with a very large lead.
Right, so pushing all-in to a guy calling a small-stack push is the best of both worlds. All-in guy has a better chance of winning against only one hand, and you have a huge overlay due to the other guys call, agree?
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i hate sngs, my hand never holds...
actually sngs are awesome...
wait.. what is a sng?
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Thank you Jennifear. Great Post. I was particularly intersted in your point about not playing tight early on in low limits. I have opened up my game early on with some reasonably good success.
I have found that many $5.00 SNG players early on do not know how to handle aggression (just like me when I started out). What I am experimenting with is to play more pots early. Where I hit my hand I overbet the pot as often as possible (on loose tables in particular). Occasionally I get called with marginal hands and clean up. Generally people will fold and I win a small pot. Granted I cost myself the odd value bet early on. Occasionally I get reraised all in, and I either call....or fold and abandon this strategy and leave it for another table..... However, after I have overbet the pot 2-4 times, invariably someone ends up doubling me up when they hold A7s vs my AQ. Naturally, sometimes I am wrong and I lose all my money or I take a bad beat, but it has worked well recenetly where I have been able to use this style early on (perhaps a quarter of the tables I play). Ofcourse I will seldom bluff when I am playing this style but that's okay because early on is not the time to be bluffing.
Do you think this is a sound strategy, or is it pure luck that it has worked so far?
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Hey Thanks Miss Fear, You Rock!
I won a small 453 person tourney tonight with your help and Adams article mentioned by Lenny.
Each level i got to I would reread that section on break and just do it. Usually it worked, except for that one douchebag in my sb who didnt know i was there whenever he would reraise but it didnt matter. I took him out eventually and at least 5 of the final 9 ft people. (4 in successive hands!)
I actually went down your list and did every single one of those sections, not in any particular order. Hitting up the aggression earlier instead of as tight really helped get a lead which helped keep the allins down when they were already covered. sometimes i guess i just get lazy and relax early so this helped.
Even though much of the info itself was somewhere in my brain already, you refreshed it and i realized i had slipped off on SO MANY things. Plus the way to actually DO it was what makes the difference. Knowing it and how to do something are two different things.
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One thing I would love to know more of is actual betting $ amounts from certain positions with pairs from 88 on down in preflop unopened pots. Especially once everyone has over 20k in chips, I think this would help my game ALOT. I try to get in cheap on low pairs utg and around there but those 88--66-44 hands are more tricky. Basically i know i want to hit a set or get to turn cheaply to make set or then i typically give up on them if they fail to happen and check -unless its obvious he has nothing then i make it expensive for him to see next card. There has got to be a better way. It just seems amazing sometimes how people will spend ANYTHING to see the next card and i love that but when i now have low or medium hand with 88 with paint on the flop and they bet the scare card i am not as excited. I think in that tourney i saw more people bet an ace to the river and not pair it and then big bet river than any time in my history. It was quite profitable most of the time but lost a few. It was positive ev in the end though!
thanks!
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Edals
(United States)
1,605
Posts.
Joined
02-17-2006.
10-05-2006 4:53 AM
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In reply to
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One thing I disagree with is the playing too tight early. I think it's extremely important to preserve a chipstack, much more so then accumulation. This is not an MTT, 30-33% of the field is getting paid as opposed to 10%, so survival is key. I prefer to just use the cards if they come to me and occassionally take a flop with something like a pocket pair hoping for a set in late position.
IMO the chips you put at risk are worth much more then the chips you stand to gain (and most of the time probably won't, be it due to not hitting which will happen often, or because you don't get paid off, or even because you wind up making a very expensive second-best hand such as that flush you made with T9s getting cracked by the Jack-rag, Queen-rag or A-rag suited hand your opponent limped UTG with). Better to just make timely steals later when everyone thinks you're this huge rock, and nobody says you won't get dealt a couple of premiums hands early every now and again.
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I read your article on PocketFives and although I consider myself an excellent SnG player, I learned several good ideas from your article and recently found the 1 major flaw in my SnG strategy which you hit on several times. Simply paying attention to what is going on is much more profitable than making some plays here and there. Multi tables, email, surfing whatever. If you are going to play, play to win. (Although I write this while playing a sng – doh)
Anyway, I liked the article.
1 thing I might add is if given the opportunity to poke at the whiner at the table, jump on him. Give him a reason to make a bad play or compound his previous mistakes. The guy calling people donkeys (whether they are or not is irrelevant) Use that needle and jab him. This is a favorite move. Also, makes people aware of what you are doing and if that helps them make a decision to fold that much easier, that’s a good thing in my mind.
However, never call a donkey a donkey. Encourage bad play.
Obviously this tactic is a lot easier in person, but online is effective too.
I agree, trying to take on a guy trying to give his chips away early, but I find most amateurs can’t get away from J9 soooted when they flop a Jack or something like top pair of 9’s… This is an advance play in regards to the fact low limits early on with limping or small raise has a lot of people in the hand. But you have to be able to get away from a hand you might not should have been in anyway.
One other 1 idea I might add, is calling an all-in in late position with ANY 2 cards if it’s less than 10% (maybe 20% if fewer are left) of your stack. You got to get all the chips anyway. Even if you double the short stack maybe he doubles through someone else, then you get all the chippies from a desperate player.
Ok yet 1 more tactic/tool I use. Especially HU. I show a lot of hands to encourage a certain behavior, if they are playing weak and they fold to my KK, bet your ass I’m going to show. Encourage free money. They make a laydown and show and I got them, I show almost everytime. A lot more headsup not early. IF they fold and show and I don’t have them, why piss them off. I like UB that you can show HU. I think this is a especially powerful tool if used correctly.
I also in paricular like to single out players (almost always in position). Pick on them. Obviously I prefer to stay away from super tight players, but a tight player that shows he is willing to fold is a great target to get a free round of cards...
Thanks for the insight.
MrSneaky
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Good advice. Thanks!
midway i ran into two of those 'ace is the only card he had with a heart to hit flush on river and he hit it' situations and i already HAD a lower flush but luckilly it didnt cripple me (left room for the reality he could have the ace each time) and i doubled back up a few hands later each time. Perhaps if i had NOT left room and bet it all he would have folded (?) but it seemed like he didnt CARE what i was doing lol. you know the "they dont look up from their own cards" type.
I think i learned the lesson you mentioned there though, really thanks for the breakdown for clarity. Sometimes i think i learned it but then its much more logical explained. You give great advice.
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I have a question on the playing to tight part (I think this may be my bigest mistake). Are you limping in in these situations or are you raising? With 6 ppl in the pot, and a marginal hand, and knowing they all will call (happens a lot)
TIA
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Edals
(United States)
1,605
Posts.
Joined
02-17-2006.
10-05-2006 6:38 AM
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In reply to
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The idea is to see the flop cheaply and try to hit a monster hand, so definitely no raising with marginal hands like 44 or 89s. Remember: the more opponents, the more likely someone picks up a second-best hand.
One thing Jennifear does not mention here is that you really really really must be sure that you're a good post-flop player. If you're making some of the other mistakes Jennifear talks about, you most certainly should fix those before you loosen up preflop, or else you give the "donkeys" more chances to "constantly suck-out" on you.
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I disagree with a few points, but for the beginner SNG player, this is a solid framework.
Good article.
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Your strategy makes sense, and very much has merit to it, Conman, though I don't recommend it for everyone. Misapplying this strategy can be very very costly, and recognizing the times to shove are paramount to success.
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Good stuff Steve! Thanks!
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Right on, you have the general idea, but do have the hand... a lot of people smooth call AA KK in that spot :)
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