Poker Discussion
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I received word while at lunch that the AP release is due out very shortly. In a nutshell they still have much of the investigation to complete, and that will take time. So far they have definitive proof as to who the culprit was, how he did it, and the fact that he did in fact cash out a significant amount. Further, I am being told that he had more accounts than even we had realized, and they are doing extensive investigations because some of these accounts were attempted to be deleted by him.
This person was the second in charge and has been fired from AP, and his one superior Scott Tom is going to be removed from running AP for a significant period of time. For legal reasons the AP release is not going to specifically name this person, and I will elaborate on that fact and why it makes perfect sense. Most of us know this persons name already as it has already been widely reported.
This person was Scott Tom's best friend and actually lived at Scott Tom's house in Costa Rica. Scott Tom has been living in Panama for quite some time, and the day to day operations of AP were left to the care of his best friend and second in charge at AP. Unfortunately since the person in command of AP was also the thief he obviously issued numerous steadfast denials of any wrong doing. Basically he was investigating himself.
Since this person was a high ranking official he had access to very sensitive information, not only regarding the operations of the company, but also very sensitive information regarding player accounts, balances, names, deposits, withdrawals etc. Because of the Internet Gaming Act their is still a wide gray area as to what is sensitive and what is not. As such the attorneys for both AP and the KGC have the same opinion that is best not to release his name publicly for the simple fact that they do not want more harm being done to the industry as a result of this person possibly trying to disclose this information publicly as a retaliation for him being fired from AP.
Further, even though Scott Tom was not involved in the actual theft, he is responsible for the actions of his friend and second in charge of the company, which is why he is being removed for a significant time frame while the entire process of restoring trust in AP takes place.
I am being told that all monies players were cheated out of will be repaid. I also have made strong overtures and recommendations that in any case involving a player being cheated AP should err on the side of caution and compensate the player if their is any doubt that he was affected.
As I stated before, they already have found several accounts that even we had not known about, and evidence of some accounts that the second in charge tried to delete. All of this investigation is going to take time, but it appears that simply based on this disclosure that they are definitively going to make a concerted effort to make things right.
Chris.
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thanks for posting. i was dissappointed with their official statement, but assuming that what you've written is true (and i have no reason to doubt it) it's probably the best we can hope for from an official perspective.
irrespective of any compensation provided, however, the fact remains that senior figures inside AP committed this scam. from what i understand these people include founders/owners and they also appear to own UB.
as such i feel it would be pretty stupid for anyone that is serious about online poker to ever play at AP/UB again. i have never played at AP, but have played at UB. i will not play there again, will remove their software from my pc and try to get myself off their e-mailing list. i'll email them to tell them why i'm doing it.
i would also hope that others do the same as me and that p5s permanently severs its links with UB/AP.
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tcmeb
(United States)
198
Posts.
Joined
07-14-2007.
10-21-2007 1:40 PM
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In reply to
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I was curious about this too, thanks for the response below.
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Sigh... not everything is a conspiracy Ranchgirl. I have inside information because I know a ton of people inside of a lot of online poker rooms. I was the first #1 here at P5's (obv. brag post) and because of that I have had the opportunity to speak to and meet many of the upper management of the sites.
In particular I know a lot of the higher ups at UB. Some of the people I know, such as the ex CEO of UB I know because of some highly critical posts I made regarding UB when I felt like they were being mismanaged.
I guess people feel open to speaking with me because I do understand both the business dynamics that concern the site as well as the underlying sentiment of the online poker community...
I can tell you this, I have much better things to do with my time than spend countless hours on the phone trying to resolve scandals.
Further, not that it is any of your business but I withdrew every dime I had at UB and AP. You can check my DB and see that I have played only a few tournaments a month there, as I cosnistently play the majority of my time at Poker Stars as I prefer their tournament selection.
I am not a paid UB or AP ambassador nor have I ever been.
Chris.
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chris has the same super duper secret see inside everyone's computer software everyone has but you ranchgirl
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I must be pushing some buttons for you to pop up. With all the cheating that is being revealed, your hateful comments fall flat. Go away, you UB loyalist/somehow insider.
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The thing the crazies warned everyone about for years is exactly what came to pass...
The people running a HUGE online poker site, the ones RUNNING it, cheated thousands of customers out of what is probably MILLIONS of dollars.
They started a site and then used their inside info to rob people who played on it...
No refund, no apology, no crucifixion, NOTHING can make this right. There's a reason Enron and Arthur Andersen, two companies much more wealthy and notable than Absolute, are history today. AP is done. There will be no more Absolute Poker in the very near future.
Stars, FTP, and the others had better get WILDLY proactive at this point and let everyone know exactly why and how they are safe and protected from this kind of thing EVER happening...or else GG online poker in the U.S., and maybe everywhere else too.
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so far today you have accused Tilly of winning because of a lipstick cam and now accusing Chris of god knows what because he knows a few people...he is one of the most respected people in poker. Once again your accusations are totally retarded and have no basis. The only time YOU show up anywhere in these forums is when you think you have a reason to bring up your crazy ideas.
Go sell crazy somewhere else...we are all full here
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Chris, I asked out of curiousity. I was not trying to "conspiracy theory" anything, other than to state I know you and Shawn are good friends. It just made me wonder why you would have all this info. Now I know, thank you.
SusieQ can still bit my hiney.
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It's very common in business, especially when you employ people in foreign countries.
The company I work for employs a couple of people who are senior managers overseas, but are not actually employees but contracted consultants. We don't need to care about their tax and stuff.
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Mr D
(United States)
246
Posts.
Joined
02-08-2007.
10-21-2007 1:59 PM
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ranchgirl, people that own AP drive cars also.......jeez how can u not see the connection there.
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Yes, I like Chris very much. I simply wondered why he is able to get this much info.
I worked in television. Point blank, she clearly had an IFB in her ear. It was highly visable when she pulled her hair back. An IFB, the same type that news anchors wear so the producers can feed them info.
You, SQ, can take a long walk off a short pier and kiss an octopuss.
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Me too, tcmeb. I wasn't implying any conspiracy. I was jsut curious as well. Forget SQ - she loves to attack. Thanks again, Chris.
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I don't expect anyone to forgive AP. I also don't expect that there is any release or position that those cleaning up at AP can ever make that will make it all sit well with the majority of the community.
What I do think is completely irrational is to make carte blanche statements that we should be worried that there is widespread rampant cheating at online poker sites. I don't play on the fringe sites for the very reason that I don't want to worry about these issues.
I am 100% unconcerned about being cheated at Full Tilt or Poker Stars. That being said I think it prudent that we always remain dilligent in making sure that we try to understand as best we can the measures and ways that we can improve security for the players at all sites. We have seen tremendous improvements in the sites catching colluders and multi accounters and I expect with further technology advancements we will see sites being able to constantly improve weeding out cheaters. We may have to sacrifice some personal liberties for this, but I'm all for it.
In the sum end I think that the AP scandal happened as the result of the abuse of power by a high ranking official, not because the core of online poker is rotten... it was one bad apple who had access to cheat the players.
What I hope comes of this is better internal security measures for the sites, and a lesson learned by even those sites not involved that their protocols need to be set so no one person can ever manipulate the system to the extent as is what happened at AP.
I also think the KGC will learn from this experience and actually improve greatly the level of communication and necessary support mechanisms that are needed to have concise, prompt investigations into any complaints of impropriety.
Chris
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ab1212
(United States)
589
Posts.
Joined
09-05-2005.
10-21-2007 2:13 PM
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In reply to
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FYI - It's role, not roll
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Shawn was my poker mentor when I first started playing, as such I value both his opinion and his wisdom tremendously. He is my good friend and I would trust him with everything that I have.
I can further 100% attest that the UB ambassadors have been vocally outspoken about the AP affair in their own internal meetings as they care about the integrity of the game.
Chris
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